
High Spirits: The Cannabis Business Podcast
Hosts Ben Larson and AnnaRae Grabstein serve up unfiltered insights, reveal their insiders' perspectives, and illuminate transformative ideas about the cannabis industry for people who want to make sense of it all.
High Spirits: The Cannabis Business Podcast
#107 - How to Buy Back Your Brand: The Levia Comeback Story w/ Kristin and Eric Rogers
We trace how a headline-grabbing CBD moment collided with the realities of cannabis policy, then dive into Levia’s rare founder buyback to unpack brand trust, dual-channel strategy, and what it takes to build consistent, safe, and truly approachable THC beverages. The conversation blends practical deal lessons, product innovation, and senior-focused education with a call for higher standards across hemp and regulated markets.
• CBD spotlight from a US president and stock whiplash
• Schedule III signaling and partisan calculus
• Why hemp access reframed consumer entry points
• Levia’s effects-led positioning and clear seltzer choice
• Vertical control, CO2 extraction, and consistency
• Deal timeline, regulatory gauntlet, and post-exit roles
• Hemp’s shift from loophole to long-term strategy
• Mechanics and patience behind the buyback from a public company
• Innovation pipeline: flavorless high-dose drops and minors
• Seniors, harm reduction, and physician-backed education
• Dual-channel plan: regulated and hemp together
• Raising standards: batch testing, responsible placement, COAs
• Brand trust as the true moat in beverages
• Advocacy on incarceration, equity, and consumer safety
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That concept of brand trust really hasn't taken off in cannabis or hemp yet, right? We're still at that sort of infancy where, like, it's really hard to get product consistency, you know, across markets, even because you're sourcing the supply chain in the regulated market in each each and every market. So the hemp opportunity gives you that ability to sort of smooth out some of those inconsistencies and create one product that can reach a larger audience. And I think that once you do that, you need to really take advantage of that platform to communicate with your consumers to educate them, um, not just about your own product, but about what they're getting into in general.
BenLarson:Hey everybody, welcome to episode 107 of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson, and with me as always is Anna Ray Grabstein, recording Tuesday, September 30th, 2025. And we've got an incredible show for you today. We have Eric and Kristen Rogers in the buyback story of Levia. Really exciting. It's a kind of first of its kind. The founder is coming back after exiting to a multi-state operator and buying back the brand. But before we dive into that, Anna Ray, happy harvest season. Tomorrow's Croptober.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yes, tomorrow. Can you believe it? It's October already. So wild. You know, harvest season for me is two things. It's cannabis and pumpkins. I love pumpkins and pumpkin patch season. So this is this is gearing up to be a good year for me.
BenLarson:Do you do you have pumpkins patching? Do you do the giant pumpkins, little pumpkins? Like what kind of pumpkins are we talking about?
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Well, I did grow a couple of pumpkin plants in my backyard, but mostly I just enjoy going to all of the pumpkin patches locally uh in Sonoma County where I live. Or if I go and visit my good friends in upstate New York, they've got like a real awesome pumpkin patch scene going. I just think pumpkin patches are this really cool kind of small business farm agricultural celebration kind of event mashup that people really bring their best for a good time.
BenLarson:Okay, I didn't know what I was gonna talk about today, but you're bringing back my past. And okay, so when I was in college, I was dating uh this country girl and her family lived a country girl?
AnnaRaeGrabstein:What does that mean?
BenLarson:She's from the country. I don't know, she like had farm stuff like goats and like pumpkins and stuff. So we're getting there. Her dad was into growing giant pumpkins and like the bass massive ones, the ones that go to the state fair and go on the scale type of thing. I'm new to this, you know. I'm I'm generally kind of like a city kid, suburb kid, whatever. And anyways, it was October one season. He's like, Oh, got this thing going at at the it wasn't the state fair, it was like the Elk Grove City Fair or something like that. It was small, it was country. Anyways, uh, we're out there, we're at this lake, and during this pumpkin extravaganza, they decided that they were gonna hollow out these giant pumpkins and roam across this pond. And who got nominated to row his pumpkin but me? And so I have rode a giant pumpkin like a canoe across a lake and back, and his other uh passion was fireworks, so he had stuck like big old like sparklers into this pumpkin. It was it was one of those core memories that I'm just like, how did I get here? But yeah, I did that. And if anyone knows, a giant pumpkin is just as slippery on the inside as the little ones that you hollow out with your kids. It was gross, anyways. That's my pumpkin story.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Pumpkins are definitely slippery on the inside. I don't know if if there's like some sort of awkward and uh inappropriate thing that we're rubbing up against at that point. Yeah, so October, you know, in California, the it's been a cold season overall. And I think the outdoor and the greenhouse growers have struggled with there not being enough heat and sun. But other parts of the country, it sounds like are having a stronger and less wet outdoor cannabis season. So for all of those people out there gearing up for harvest or already cutting down their crops, uh, we're excited for you and excited to see what this all turns into in this coming year, whether it becomes pre-rolls or distillant that turns into other things or who even knows, or just flour for jars. It's it's like it's the beginning of the next year.
BenLarson:Bring on the flour, brush it down, put it in the drinks, and let's go.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Let's go, let's drink it up. So I'm excited to riff about this news, which I first received from you in a text message on Sunday, pretty close after it happened. Trump posted a video on Truth Social. It was a repost of a video created by the Commonwealth Project. And the video explains the endocannabinoid system and endorses hemp-derived CBD for seniors. It was quoted that hemp-derived CBD is a game changer for seniors, highlighting the benefits of sleep and stress, while even calling for Medicare coverage and more physician education. There was an immediate rally that followed yesterday on cannabis stocks and even the Canadian ones. And of note, the video's remarks are strictly focused on health-derived CBD without acknowledging the decades of state-level medical cannabis programs or THC-based therapies. What do you think?
BenLarson:Oh man, there's there's a lot to think. But like I posted online, I I think any recognition that we can get for the endocannabinoid system or cannabinoids in general by a US president, in of itself is is a great step forward in a positive light in this particular case. The Commonwealth Project I had never personally heard of, but shout out to Jamie Campbell for posting the fact that they were one of the proponents advocating for Schedule Three. So to jump to that, I do think, even though it wasn't mentioned, there is a tie to cannabis. And looking at it from a medical perspective, which the Commonwealth Project does have a lot of medical doctors identified on their board, that there is some tie towards medical cannabis rescheduling and the fact that hemp and cannabis are the same plan. So I like the kind of signaling in the direction that it's going. I also like the fact that it's just a pure playbook move to be like stroking Trump's ego and being like, oh, the groundbreaking legislation in 2018, this was Trump, where Biden and the Democrats failed. I mean, it's classic. It's like, it's like so like we all talked about the playbook and then someone just executed on it and then it worked. And it's like, oh, look at that. So, so kudos to the to the Commonwealth project.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yeah, I I hear you, and I totally agree that having anyone as prominent as Donald Trump talk publicly about the endocannabinoid system is is huge and is a massive step forward. That said, I also have some hot takes. Um, the way that I see this is that we are staring at the barrel of years of stalled democratic promises as as it relates to cannabis policy reform. And I have been thinking the last couple of days since this video about my own and potentially the industry's naivete to think that Trump was going to grab onto the policies that the Democrats offered to be the thing that that was going to carry forward reform from his administration. And so now he's filling the gap with a symbolic rebrand of hemp as the clean version of cannabis, almost like a Trojan horse and uh that's coming in to save the seniors. I also found it really interesting in a nod to the RFK circle and the Make America Healthy crowd when he specifically said that doctors aren't equipped to make recommendations around cannabinoids, which which I think also was a signal about consumer products as opposed to pharma in some ways, of like take this into your own hands and try it. I I see this as like a as a repositioning, not really policy. It's like instead of saying that we're going to push forward with banking or equity or rescheduling, he's grabbed the lowest hanging fruit, which is legal CBD under the 2018 Farm Bill. So I hope that this is just the beginning of a lot more progressive, open policy coming from Trump. And when I say progressive, I don't mean democratic. I just mean forward moving progress as it relates to policy beyond hemp derived CBD. It's like we want cannabinoids widely, we want rescheduling, we want intoxicating hemp to be regulated. We need we need a lot more than what we've got right now.
BenLarson:Yeah, I think we need to be very careful about how excited we get for for a litany of reasons. But number one, it's like Trump doesn't like intoxicants personally. Like he he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke weed. So it's like it really only mentions CBD and and how that helps out in whatever conversation, hemp or cannabis you think it might, just don't be so certain, right? So I don't know, watching the stocks pop, it's like it's it's so predictable, it's sad. They'll crash again. So get out your money right now if you can. I guess on the positive side, it does bring more attention to the conversations that are literally happening right now, might cause some pause for anyone that's just going for all out bands. Also, that has surfaced is this the comer letter, uh, which uh has 27 signatures from with bipartisan support saying get that ban language out of the appropriations bill. It's already been taken out of the Senate bill, but now we're trying to get it stripped out of the House bill. I know that letter was gaining signatures while we were in DC with Kaba and the US Hemp Roundtable and WSWA. And so it's kind of all happening out at once, but to your point, it's just you just don't know with this president. He also posted this weekend a video about medbeds, uh, which is crazy because they don't exist. And it was literally like AI of him and and and Laura Trump with things that they just never said. And I'm like, what is this world where the president is posting this video as well? So it's just you have to take it all with a grain of salt.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yeah. I I will say that the the letter, the comer letter that you referenced that has the 27 bipartisan signatures on it. One thing that I do believe that a video like this coming from Trump does is it does signal to his followers where he wants them to be. And my guess is that with a few more days, if that letter waited, it probably would have gotten more Republican signatures this week than it had last week, just by virtue of Trump making that statement. Because he does that. He he sends statements to his followers, and then his followers get in line and they help him execute on his plan. So if this is a signal to the legislators that have the power in Congress to get something done, let's get something fucking done.
BenLarson:And if there's even a sliver of a chance that this video gets out of Trump, you're the smartest, most beautiful, most luxurious hair. And we are so lucky to be in your ethos of half legislation.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yeah, you're you're so smart, Trump. If if you if you can possibly, you know, move policy forward in any way, we would name products after you if you'd like fit or even like a special orange OG cushion. If that's something that appeals to you, we can go that way too.
BenLarson:We're gonna get canceled.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:That's that's that's all that's it.
BenLarson:We ended on 107. That was a good run. All right, let's go.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Okay, we have some exciting guests today. So we're gonna stop talking about complicated politics and instead talk about a really awesome comeback story. We are excited to welcome Kristen and Eric Rogers with us to the show today. Kristen is the CEO and Eric is co-founder of Levia. Kristen's a licensed therapist who spent nearly 20 years helping people, and she's always been passionate about reducing stigma around addiction and mental health. And that perspective, combined with Eric's background in big brand marketing, inspired them to create Levia back in 2017. Levia officially launched its beverages into the market in Massachusetts in 2021 and took off, quickly becoming a top cannabis beverage brand before being acquired by Air Wellness in 2022. This year, Kristen and Eric bought it back to keep shaping its future on their own terms. So, together, they bring a mix of wellness, creativity, and business know-how, and we are gonna dive in and learn all about it. Welcome, Eric and Kristen.
KristinRogers:Thank you. Thanks for having us.
BenLarson:Yeah, we're we're we're stoked to have you guys. You guys are celebrities in cannabis, in cannabis beverage, and man, way, way ahead of your time. Like, really the only notable beverage brand exit that I can really think of that actually had a dollar amount affixed to it, and years before this huge wave of beverage came through.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yeah, your guys' acquisition really inspired a ton of other brands that I think that they were gonna be able to also scale and find an exit.
BenLarson:Yeah, did you just shut the door behind you? Like, what happened? You've you've been like literally the only brand that I can really think of, with the exception of maybe the Agrify Seniorita deal, but that was kind of a very quiet deal that was done. How did that how did that happen? Like you guys grew like wildfire in Massachusetts and then got swooped up uh at a 60 million dollar valuation, I believe the number was.
EricRogers:Yeah, it was uh quite the roller coaster ride, as you can imagine. Um, you know, as we were building the facility that we're still grateful to be sitting in, um, we realized uh that we were building a rocket ship. Um, you know, as we got our first production batch going, um, you know, our sales lead sold every drink before it even got into a can. Um, and we were launching in February, and we are fortunate enough to live in a state where we drink ice coffee 365 days a year. Um, so we didn't have you know tremendous concern around a bit launching a beverage in winter. Um, but also, you know, we had just weathered a few years of delays, uh, lots of zigzag-zags through the regulatory process, the local municipality process. So we were just excited to really get this brand into market. Um, and being the sort of first drinkable option in Massachusetts on the East Coast, um we were really well received. And we're very fortunate to have partnered uh with Brandon Sear, who's our creative resource, uh, who helped us really bring life and shape to the brand that he and I had been working on, you know, for a couple of years at that point to really create something that we felt like could really resonate with the consumer audience and and really make a product that is approachable um for new consumers and experienced consumers alike.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:But so did you go out to try to sell the company once you started getting traction in market? Did Air approach you? What was that what was that early process like, the deal?
EricRogers:Yeah, no, we did not uh go looking uh to be sold. Um, you know, my personal opinion, which is opinion of one, was that we were still at the starting gate. We had, you know, started a fire, um, but we were really at the beginning of what I felt like was the opportunity for for the brand that we created with the goals that we had set out um you know to accomplish. But um word was out, um, and it wasn't just just air, uh, it was multiple uh national operators that were reaching out, wanted tours, wanted to see what we were doing and and understand better why we were resonating with consumers. So once it moved beyond sort of a single conversation into almost a half a dozen conversations, um, you know, we really had to take uh time to think about our fiduciary responsibility to the investors who had been leaning in since 2018 when we started fundraising and the long road to get to market and what was right for the brand, which our personal goals was always for the brand to exist. So to be able to partner with an operator who already had licenses in other states, already had real estate in the other in those states, and we could bring sort of the process format to really throw gasoline on a fire, it was an opportunity we really couldn't um pass up uh in the moment.
BenLarson:So interesting. So you weren't the only brand on the market at the time. You know, there's other notable brands that had grown up through other state markets and and gained traction. What was it about the Levia story being in Massachusetts that really drove the interest uh of purchasers? Because I didn't hear from other brands that they were getting a lot of knocks on the door. So there was something that you guys were doing that were making you stand apart, and it wasn't in the most obvious state. So, like, can you unpack that one that part a little bit?
EricRogers:I can try. I don't know that anybody will really ever truly have that answer. Um, but you know, the we uh we were a group, we were a team that really used all the delays and sort of zigs and zags that we were uh experiencing along the way to our benefit. How could we improve the brand? How could we improve the product? Um, so for us, a few things were really important to us. One, uh, how do we simplify sort of the cannabis uh marketplace for consumers? Um, we've generally thought that the strain name game was really getting confusing for consumers since they didn't necessarily know what that effect was going to be. So we were one of the few brands that really led with being effects led. We wanted to simplify that by creating three distinct effects for consumers that very much laddered up against that sativa, hybrid, and indica effects, but but branded, right? To create those clear and predictable outcomes for consumers. The other thing that was really important for us was it being a clear beverage. Most of the cannabis beverages on the market um had more of a cloudy appearance to it. Um we had no idea how we were going to accomplish that, but we were able to find a third party um that really enabled us to deliver on that goal. So it was sort of a combination of factors that were coming together as we were withering through those delays to really tighten up the brand story, the brand look and feel, um, so that there were clear and predictable outcomes and reasons for consumers to want to lean in. And then I think we also had a ton of luck. Uh 2018 was the summer of White Claw. Prior to that, everyone was like, What do you mean you're gonna drink your cannabis drink? Right, no one had this idea of a spiked seltzer. And you know, by the end of 2019, going into 2020, it was over a four billion dollar category just in spiked seltzers at that point. So you saw that explosive growth. So it gave us those points of keep going on the seltzer, keep going on something that's rooted in simple and all natural ingredients, because we also wanted to align with an audience that was looking for those things. A lot of the cannabis beverages on the market at the time, you know, had a lot of sugar, had high calorie content. So we wanted to kind of align with the ethos of Massachusetts, which is more of that active lifestyle, um, health-conscious consumers, so that hey, we're we're giving you that alternative, um, not only to smoking and potentially high calorie edibles, but also alcohol. So that how do we start that conversation overall? So it was a you know that equal blend of a lot of hard work and a little bit of luck um and timing, all packaged up into one. Amazing.
KristinRogers:I also I agree with the effects. I think that that was a huge piece of it. But in addition, uh when I think about our biggest competitors back then, we had our own infrastructure, which was a little bit different. So there was great brands with great marketing, but we had our own facility, we still make our own oil, CO2 oil, we do our own delivery. And I think, you know, when you're looking at something like that, it it it's it's more valuable, right? We had we had our own space and we could do what we wanted here.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:And and I want to, I know people want to hear about the buyback, but I also think that founders really want to hear about the acquisition process, how long it takes, and then what happens post. So I do think it makes sense to take a little more time. I want to hear about how long that deal took from when it started to when it closed, and then what happened to you guys after? Did you stay on? Did you exit stage left? What did that look like?
KristinRogers:So we signed an LOI with AIR in August 2021, but we did not get through regulatory approval until February 2022. So that is how I mean uh that's how long the regulatory process took to actually sell. So we were sort of like in this um, you know, middle of nowhere for for six, seven months. Um and while the state sort of went through everything and decided what to do. Um and I made the decision uh to stay with the brand. It had always as a therapist, you know, and as someone who was just really focused on how what else can I do to help the stigma? I cannot believe how far we've come. It's been really fun to be part of that, you know, working with Air to figure out, okay, how can I help in that way? How can I travel around and and you know, help you in other states and and really focus on what my dream had been all along. And that is to really help people understand that you don't have to just eat a brownie and be high for the next 24 hours. You can actually have a good experience that's consistent that you know we all know how we feel after one glass of wine, right? Like we want people to feel that way about cannabis as well, so that we don't have the we don't keep hearing these stories about people having these terrible experiences. So, you know, that was my goal in staying with air.
EricRogers:I took another path. Uh I exited. Um, I was very reluctant in in the sale process. I, you know, I sort of did it for the the bigger vision of what Levia uh could become. Um and you know, candidly, the the build process of Levia took a long time and it had taken a lot uh out of me. Uh, you know, my mental health had definitely suffered, and it was time for me to sort of take a step back and put my myself and my family first, our family first, um, during that time. Um, so I exited, uh, spent some time decompressing, um, spending time with our three children who I love more than anything, um, and then ultimately um, you know, ended up partnering up with some partners to create another product manufacturing company, um, really focused on what we believe to be the next wave of things to come in the cannabis industry, which is social consumption. And how could we start creating products to support uh the social consumption space that are you know building off of the sociability of seltzers, but in more of the culinary side of things. So we put out an infused hot sauce that we partnered with a classically trained chef to make and really wanted to just get people to start thinking about cannabis in different ways that you can really integrate it into your lifestyle. Um, and it's not you know all about the smokables or just the the clo the traditional gummy products that are very popular.
BenLarson:So it's interesting, like you the six-month process. Um, you know, I've seen fundraises take longer than that. So it it I it does seem long, like anything can happen in that that six-month period. Um, but you got through it, and and timing is interesting because you said February of 2022, you had gone deep into Massachusetts. I think you guys were number one by far. And now you're you're teamed up with this this MSO, who had a very beverage-focused strategy and access to a bunch of different states. And then at the same time, 2022 was a big year for kind of when THC beverage in the hemp channel started opening up later in the year, uh, and Minnesota started going through its uh this legalization process, it's a major fork in the road. And and I'm curious, whatever direction you want to take this leading up to, how did that play out for you guys? Did you did you kind of start expanding state to state under the what that vision for the partnership was? And then like what was happening in your minds as as the kind of hemp rollout was happening in parallel to that?
KristinRogers:Ultimately, I think being part of a much larger company that had put millions and millions and millions into the regulated infrastructure, and we were still you know dealing with states where you know people hadn't really thought to bring hemp beverages in yet. So for a long time, it wasn't really on the regulated radar.
BenLarson:Minnesota wasn't top of the list for regulated markets, right? Right.
KristinRogers:Exactly, like you know, air just air doesn't have a footprint there, and so really the focus was okay, how do we move, how do we light this fire and get this in other states? And ultimately, uh we moved really quickly into Arizona, Nevada, Florida, and Ohio with um the drink drops. So um we have a uh product that we call drink drops. It's essentially a tincture, but meant it's water soluble, so meant to make anything a Levia, right? If you don't like seltzer, you know, you can make your coffee a Levia. It's also great for people where that five milligrams is not enough. Um, so you can, you know, if you're a hundred milligram person, you can make a hundred milligram uh drink for yourself. So in the overhead is obviously a lot less. There's no canning line, there's no, you know, there's there's a lot that goes into building the infrastructure for an actual um beverage facility. So that was a really easy way to get into those states, and that was really fun. Um, we uh felt very quickly that we did we had a lot of brand equity in places that I didn't realize, which was awesome. Um, so getting to be part of that was was really great um and exciting. And I think still hemp was so interesting because of course we kept up on it, and I of course me, I'm looking at the research and trying to figure out like what what's happening with this, do we think it's gonna go anywhere? And quite frankly, I kept thinking people were just gonna shoot it down. There was so much um, you know, a lot of propaganda still, which we are we were already dealing with all the time. So I think for for a while, uh, we just we weren't sure it was gonna go anywhere. Um but there are some really great be brands out there that worked really hard to break through some of these barriers. And I'm I'm really impressed with some of the work that they've done to sort of break the stigma and and show people that you know, hemp doesn't have to be scary. You know, it's it's another plan. It's it's also got great resources too. So, you know, along the way, there was sort of this very slow, slow turning thought process about okay, hemp's here to stay. What are we gonna do now? Um especially as the regulated markets weren't doing quite so well anymore. Um, you know, there's especially for publicly traded companies, um, you know, the stocks crashed with with all of with all of these MSOs really quickly. Um, and so figuring out what other options was also really important. But again, everyone put millions and millions and millions of dollars into the regulated market. So to try to get anyone to turn was really difficult.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:I I relate so much to what you're talking about about this moment in time of being like, is hemp really gonna stick? Like, how much can you really bet on this? Can can you think about next year even or just the next month? And and and highly manufactured and brand driven products at that time for me were hard to wrap my head around in the hemp space because I just wasn't sure they were gonna stick around. And I know how much it takes to build a brand. So I I totally relate to that. I think you know, a couple of fast forward a few years, there's there's a very different perspective that many of us uh take on on what's happened and and where it might be going in the future. But so, okay, so Kristen, now you're inside an air, you're working on this multi-state expansion within the construct of the regulated markets that air is in. Uh and at some point you start thinking about buying back the company, like what get us to where we are today, and the press release announcing that you guys are coming home and buying back your company.
KristinRogers:I mean, it really started with hemp, to be quite honest. Like it's it started with my firm belief and Eric as well that hemp's not going anywhere. And if we if we wanted to be competitive and keep this brand alive, at some point we were gonna need to make that decision. So I am I am truly grateful. Um, because you know, Air is a huge company, but they talked to me. We had these great conversations. David Goubert, the CEO at the time, was really great. They let me into rooms where I learned more about retail and uh you know compliance in other states, and it was really exciting, and sort of talking through the hemp opportunity um was was a really big deal. And it I can't even believe the difference. It was like a three month difference between no one's ever gonna go hemp to purely going live with hemp. And uh to to be fair, they they changed. Changed the landscape for a lot of us, um, looking to move into that path, uh, which was very exciting because a big MSO like that doesn't make a decision like that lightly. And so that was really where the conversation started about buying it back.
EricRogers:In a parallel path, um, I too was having the same sort of thoughts that everybody was having. Is this a loophole? Where is this going? Is this legitimate? What's happening? And I was very intrigued by some of these, you know, non-regulated markets that were all of a sudden touting having social cannabis lounges. Um, and Nashville kept being a city that kept popping, and they had a half a dozen lounges. And I was like, is this real? What are they serving? I don't understand. And an interesting trip came together of advisors that I was working with, other dispensary owners, consumers, other entrepreneurs. And we went down on this trip. There were like 15 of us that ended up uh converging on Nashville specifically to explore the hem market to understand what this looks like in a more conservative location and is this real? And it really opened our eyes and evolved my thinking from this is a loophole to this is an opportunity and one that we really should focus on. And it was coming back from that trip, which was really you know, fall of 2023 at that point, um, that Kristen and I sort of partnered up on the first thing, which was this pitch back to air of like, this is the growth opportunity for this brand. Like now is the top to lean in. Um, and as Kristen said, it was really not well received, but it did peek that door open of like, well, if we're not going to go into hemp, what could that buyback look like? Like, how could we potentially support the brand to make sure it doesn't, you know, it doesn't wither on the line. So uh yeah, at the end of the day, it was this evolved perspective on what the hemp opportunity loophole, whatever you want to call it, is um, that really helped shepherd this opportunity and began those those discussions about the future of the brand.
BenLarson:So you just said fall of 2023. And here we are sitting, is it fall officially? It feels like fall, fall of 2025. Yeah, yeah. So two years uh since then, is that speak to the complexity of buying back your company or just the nature of decoupling in this particular situation? I've never bought back a company before, so I'm I'm not even sure of what the mechanics are or anything. So, what has happened over the last two years and and why did it take this long to kind of arrive at where we are today?
KristinRogers:Uh the complexity. It it's it is very complex to uh buy back a brand from a publicly traded company, and the the zigs and zags that that took um were nuts, but we stayed the course, the communication was great, it just took a very long time to sort of get to the point where we had the seal, not to mention, you know, lots of change in leadership. Um, so again, I luck. Like here we are. There is a ton of luck to this. The timing was great. Um, the people, thank goodness, listen to me. And they were willing to continue to work through this for us, which was which was really great. And I will forever be grateful for that.
BenLarson:Oh man, leadership changes is like a new conversation every time there's a leadership change.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yes.
BenLarson:Oh man.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Oh in terms of the deal mechanics, is there any tips or tools, people, bankers, lawyers that you could call out that were key in helping make this happen for you?
KristinRogers:We work with Foley Hoag, um, who has been amazing, the Massachusetts folks. Um I there, I mean, they're all over the US. Um, they have a huge cannabis um business. And just really, I mean, if you're in Massachusetts or not, if if you are in this position, I think having a team that truly knows this industry, because every state has its own very strict regulations. And if you do not have a team of lawyers, especially that know what they're doing in a state regulated market, um, it's just gonna tack on time. So I I give them a ton of credit. Uh, they were they were very helpful, they continue to be very helpful as we work through this. So very grateful to them.
BenLarson:Oh, I didn't even think about that aspect. It's like, you know, we we operate in multiple states, so we have multiple entities that have to do like different things. And it's like if you're having to unwind that, that you have to map like all those different operations and and contracts. That's that's complicated.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:That's complicated. Well, so you now regained control, the company is back in your hands. Uh and I want to hear about what the vision is. Um in the prep call, Eric, you were sharing that a lot of the original team is still there in your manufacturing site. So it must feel like coming home. And uh, what do you what do you want to do next now that you're home?
EricRogers:It does. Um, we are very grateful for the team that we have here in in the building that have been, you know, the behind-the-scenes support that have been making this brand go the entire time. Um, you know, they are truly best in the business in terms of what they're able to do from uh every process that we throw at them. Um, so a lot of it is getting back to the basics, right? Focusing on customers and serving their needs, both dispensaries and consumers, to kind of get the brand back on that growth trajectory. So since we've been back, we've really been focused on sort of realigning in the Massachusetts market, repositioning ourselves. Uh, we did a brand refresh to give the brand a new look and feel for the change in ownership again to align with sort of the different sort of vibe we were going for with the brand now that the market has evolved, the brand has evolved, um, and the opportunity has evolved. So for us, really, it's a focus on innovation. Um, how can we start to get back to uh creating new products? You know, we launched with two sets of products, the seltzers and the drink drops, um, but we really hadn't had a lot of innovation or opportunity to diversify the products um throughout the sort of process after the acquisition. So we're really focused on developing new products. We just launched a 1,000 milligram version of our drink drops that really is a flavorless execution. It's kind of like a cannabis cocktail bitter, but with no flavor, so that you really are empowered to make, you know, whatever cannabis beverage you want. Um, and beyond that, um, you know, as as we mentioned in the prep call as well, we're big believers in the whole plant and all the cannabinoids, right? We have a super critical CO2 lab that we have on site. So we're doing all of our own extraction and processing um into products. So we want to continue to lean in on minor cannabinoids and doing things that the market is already now kind of ahead of us on that were on our product product roadmap to begin with. So we're really excited to sort of get back to that stage of innovation of delivering you know products that surprise and delight consumers and really get them excited about cannabis and continue to show that you know that this isn't a scary experience, that in this format you can drink half a drink and you feel great. Well, you can put it down. You haven't committed to that experience after you popped a couple of gummies and just sort of holding on for the ride. So, you know, that this brand is a little bit different in the way that we're trying to connect with consumers and really more broadly destigmatize this this concept of cannabis and connect with consumers in a way that we don't know that that we had the opportunity to in the last couple of years.
BenLarson:I think what's really special about you guys is just the depth of the brand. Like you're talking about you know, extraction and and infusion tech. And it's like the there's very few beverage brands in the space that are vertically integrated like that, um, but not just from an operational standpoint, like Kristen, when we were talking earlier, you were just talking about how much you love the advocacy and education side. And I was also on an HBA call earlier, and and Chris was saying that if you're an entrepreneur or a business a brand owner in the space, you need to be advocating, you need to be educating. And yes, I would just I would just love to hear your your perspective on that. Like what what lights you up? What are you excited to dive into on that side of the business?
KristinRogers:Oh, I I can't believe how crazy the last four years have been from you know, the first time I walked into a senior center with other air folks um to talk about the plant. And there was like two people. Now we, you know, now we're filling rooms with at these senior centers where we're people are asking legitimate questions. We brought doctors, Dr. Ben Kaplan. Um, he's got uh a cannabis handbook for physicians, which is amazing and actually a very easy read. I'll put a little plug for that right there. We have people that can talk to this, and there are insurance companies that are talking about it, and to be able to say these things to seniors who are now their, you know, their kids, their relatives are are teaching them like, hey, you could sleep better taking this gum aid, you could sleep better doing this, and you don't have to take uh prescription medication to do this or that. You know, obviously I feel it's very important to listen to your doctor, but at the same time, we're in a whole new world right now where people are open to it. And the difference between, you know, when we started this journey to now is nuts. It's so fun because people are paying attention um and they're they're really thinking about it. And we haven't had a ton of research in the US, um, but there are a lot of other countries that are doing excellent research on opioid use um and harm reduction using cannabis. And I mean, we've uh every day I hear stories about people drinking less because they're drinking our drinks or drinking someone else's drinks. I don't care. I'm just psyched you're doing it. You know, I'm I'm just so excited every time I walk in a room and people tell me something new that cannabis has done for them. So, you know, those are the days I live for is being able to have those conversations with people, even just right now talking to you guys about this. Like this does light me up. This makes me so excited because I'll tell you, 10 years ago, we couldn't get people into rehab for opiates if they were using cannabis to get off of it. You know, we we people were dying because they couldn't use cannabis in a way that was effective for them. And that's that was really hard. And and I'm so proud of how far we've come. Um, and a lot of people working together to make this happen. So, you know, that is absolutely um what gets me up and out here every day.
EricRogers:And we're really excited about the opportunity because Kristen's very humble. She's one of the few, if not the only, person that is both licensed by the Department of Mental Health and the Cannabis Control Commission. She spent over 15 years at nonprofits working on the front line, helping folks with severe mental illness and substance abuse problems. She lived this. And it was through that experience that led to the insights of why we even went into beverage to begin with. So we're very passionate about this in general. And, you know, in in her advocacy, she has an authority. She has that experience firsthand. She has treated folks who have been having severe substance abuse disorders and seen the harm reduction that cannabis can bring to that conversation. Um, so we absolutely are leaning in on more research, more advocacy, and you know, working with both high-risk uh individuals and and communities, but also just educating the broader, the broader set of consumers in the state of Massachusetts and beyond of like what the plant benefits really are and what that opportunity is. So uh we're excited about that.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:I I want to dig in to the intersection of that destigmatization, public health and access, because there's there's clearly a a rub and a contrast that that's happening in terms of access to products through the regulated cannabis uh channel, which is where you guys started, and versus tons of access through health channels and more traditional outlets. And and I think it's it's a complex thing to reconcile. And Kristen, as as a licensed mental health provider and someone that's thinking about research, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I can assume that consumer safety is something that that is important to you and stability and consistency is something that matters. Uh and yet when you're also talking about seniors, I think that one of the things that the high access pathway of the hemp market has shown us is that there are a lot of consumers that are interested in accessing cannabis that the dispensary channel hasn't served. So I'd love to hear your perspective on that and how how it's how it's uh gonna be executed within the company's growth strategy next. Are you sticking and regulated? Are you all in on hemp?
KristinRogers:Some of both both, definitely both. I think it's really important um that we still support, especially in Massachusetts. I mean, Massachusetts right now um has uh outlet hemp. You cannot sell hemp products um in Massachusetts without a license. And but they're working through this uh in the legislature right now, and I'm really hopeful that we hit a point where uh they're one and the same, right? So we we can also work on educating people on that. It's been really hard. The amount of sorry, the amount of um uh emails I get about people asking if I can ship them regulated products because no one really understands what the laws are, what the differences are. And so, you know, I've joked about this becoming my educational tour right now. Like, how do we help people to understand? And quite frankly, there is not a lot of difference. There really isn't, especially when you're just talking about D9. Um, so you know, but there are a lot of great benefits to the hemp plant as well, which is very exciting. So, how do we help consumers engage? And that is all of our problem. I think I have been very uncomfortable with seeing um products that look just like ours sitting next to like kids' ice creams in in gas stations, right? We need to be better, we need to support each other, like one bad incident is gonna hurt everyone, you know. So having solid products, good testing, and making sure we're all kind of following, we're all following the same rules, I think is really important and that we're all out there advocating, you know, yes, there's always gonna be competition, but right now we're all in the same boat. We need to work together to ensure that that people understand what this product is, what it can do, and that there are ways to sort of safeguard around some of the issues that can come up with this. So I'm really excited to partner with whomever, you know, every beverage brand, you know, there's all sorts of reasons for everyone to come together in this, and that's really exciting as well.
BenLarson:I want to press on this a little bit more because we talk a lot about this, and and you guys have a unique perspective, right? Where you've kind of been watching uh a lot of what's been developing on the hemp side and some of the benefits that it's bringing, some of the limitations. You've lived through very much what it is to be in the regulated state model expansion. And I'm guessing that's probably amplified for you because how you've have valued owning the supply chain in your home state, but then going to new states and having to work through partnerships and having kind of an arm's length to, you know, whether it's boots on the ground or or just a completely different regulatory environment. What do we need to do? What do we need to adapt from either side to really strengthen how we educate, how we advocate, and how we're kind of accessing the consumer, you know, through these products.
EricRogers:So I think the beverage space specifically created this like spotlight on like what access to the plant really was, right? Because everyone's walking into a liquor store and you see some of these big national liquor chains leaning in on it, and all of a sudden you have an end cap with THC drinks, right? That's gonna pique your interest. That's just gonna the general curiosity there. So that's where I think like the the rise and the growth of THC beverages specifically um has really created this opportunity, but then it's sort of intersected with a low barrier to entry of getting into it, right? Uh breweries are seeing a decline in alcohol sales, they're looking at a way to preserve it or increase their revenue overall, so they're leaning in to the THC beverage uh space on the on the hemp side. Um, and what we've seen is some less sophisticated operators, right? They're not following through on testing every batch. They might test one batch, get results back, and that's the batch that's posted on their website in perpetuity at that point. So I think that collectively, what we've seen is a mini, you know, wave of operators come into the uh come into the market who kind of went a mile wide and an inch deep, just trying to kind of capture on what that opportunity is from a consumer curiosity perspective of consumers leaning in and just trying this new segment of the market that's coming up. But I think what we're seeing is very quickly is consumers are are going to want and are commanding more accountability of the operators. They want to know what's going into it, they want to have those consistent, predictable experiences. So you need to start educating consumers around what they need to look for, what they should be looking at from an information perspective to protect themselves, to protect their own consumer experience overall. So that's where I think you know, some of the hemp beverage, you know, associations, the hemp beverage alliance, and some of these um groups that have been coming together are critical to really come together as operators who want to raise the tide for all ships within that hemp beverage space to hold ourselves to a higher level of accountability so that when consumers are looking to fact check, when consumers are looking to educate, that we're all there with those resources, with the information that they need to really build confidence and trust amongst the consumer base that you're that you're you're partnering with a reputable brand that you can have confidence in, right? Because that that concept of brand trust really hasn't taken off in cannabis or hemp yet, right? We're still at that sort of infancy where like it's really hard to get product consistency, you know, across markets, even because you're sourcing the supply chain and the regulated market in each each and every market. So the hemp opportunity gives you that that ability to sort of smooth out some of those inconsistencies and create one product that can reach a larger audience. And I think that once you do that, you need to really take advantage of that platform to communicate with your consumers, to educate them, um, not just about your own product, but about what they're getting into in general, right? Um, and that's what we're really excited about.
BenLarson:I love that. Go deeper on integrity and education and rise the tide.
AnnaRaeGrabstein:Yeah. I also appreciate that you explained really one of the key benefits of hemp that serves consumers in a way that we haven't talked about that often. But being able to streamline your supply chain into manufacturing in one place definitely lets a company focus on making sure that that supply chain is as buttoned up as it possibly could be with this with the highest level of consistency and safety. Whereas having to set up a new supply chain in every state just brings so many more partners and ingredients and suppliers. And I see it in regulated cannabis all the time, that it's one of the challenges of brands expanding because the the quality that they have in one market, they aren't always able to replicate uh in others. And and the one really the biggest loser in that scenario is the consumer. Um so yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Um it is time for our last call. This this time has flown. It's been a really great conversation. Thank you for being so open and sharing your story with us. Uh, and if why don't we get a last call from each of you? Um, a final message for our listeners, some advice, a call to action, a closing thought. The mic is yours.
KristinRogers:Uh I I think in general, the cannabis industry is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. There is no other other industry like it. Um, but I think it's really important for all of us to also not forget that we're dealing with stigma. There are people still in jail for the things that we are making money on right now legally. And that is something that I think has been lost a bit along the way. And so making sure we are continuing to advocate for that and making sure that we are working towards creating genuine products that people can trust is very important for all of us. I mean, we're all gonna go out of business if we have, you know, if we are not focusing on consistency for consumers. But in addition, you know, making sure that your brand also stands for something else. Um, because ultimately at the end of the day, I don't sleep very well at night knowing that there are people still serving time for the same thing that I'm doing legally right now. So I think folk making sure you focus on that. And even if you don't care about that, your consumers do. So, you know, making sure that you continue to push this platform is something that I am really excited about, and I hope other people are as well.
EricRogers:For me, I would say we're excited to be back and we want to be that bridge to the consumers. You know, we have people reaching out all the time through our website, and it's usually one of us that's getting back to them at this point. And we're so excited to sort of spread the gospel of liquid to lips, right? We want to get the best case tasting cannabis beverages and products into your hand that empower you to create the experience that you're looking for uh with confidence and repeatability so that every time you get our products, that you're you have extreme confidence um that you're gonna have the best cannabis experience that you can. That's clear and predictable for you. Um, and we'll do that through continued education and advocacy and focus on our supply chain. But we're just super excited to get back to growth of this brand. Uh, we're grateful for this opportunity, and we're really excited to bring this brand to the national heights that we believe it can it can achieve.
BenLarson:Love it. I'm so glad we got to have this conversation. Kristen and Eric Rogers, co-founders and newest owners of Levia. Uh, congratulations, guys. Thank you so much for spending the last hour with us. It was it was really great having you. Thank you. Thank you so much. We really appreciate it. All right, and thank you, all of you out there in LinkedIn and internet and podcast world for engaging. We love having the conversations online. We love it. If you can like it, subscribe it, share it, do all the things. Thank you to our teams at Virtosa and Wolf Meyer, and of course, our producer, Eric Rossetti. As always, folks, stay curious, stay informed, and keep your spirits high. Until next time, that's the show.