California, America, And Rebel Spirit

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is something that I say often. California means to America what America means to the world. What I mean by that is that it's the home of all the great qualities I think we associate with America or should be at its best, freedom and energy and optimism and ambition. And and there's something, some part of why California's been successful, I think, is what I call the rebel spirit.

Voting Stress And High Stakes

SPEAKER_02 0:45

I'm Ben Larson. And I'm Anna Ray Gramstein. And this is episode 158.

Ben Larson 0:52

And we've got a special guest for this episode, California gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton, will be joining us, and we're going to do a U.S. election roundup on top of that. So I guess this is the election episode. Anna Ray, are you ready? Are you are we are we are are are we voting?

AnnaRae Grabstein 1:12

I am so voting. I have my uh my ballot right here. I worked on it over the weekend with my son right next to me. Uh, but I will say I left the spot for governor open. I figured we should have today's conversation. Um, so today I still remain undecided.

Ben Larson 1:33

Interesting. Yeah, it's uh it feels it feels consequential this year, which I mean historically I don't pay too much uh attention in the kind of off presidential years, but uh California hasn't seemingly been in the best position. You know, we there's a there's a lot of conflict over um what California has been, what it's been built by, entrepreneurs, the billionaire tax, and and frankly, the cannabis industry where where we operate. And so trying to find a way through it, um, looking for the right candidate. But there's a lot of things on the ballot, so it's uh yeah, I'm trying to get through it. It's very complicated. I hate reading through these things.

AnnaRae Grabstein 2:11

It is so complicated. We have tons of measures on the ballot this year, and some some of them make absolutely no sense. A regular layperson. So uh this is why we are having an election roundup for all of you, for our listeners. And um, cannabis in particular, per usual, is uh is on the ballot in a number of states. It is a edge issue in some of the different uh different fights going on at the state level for governor and for other seats. So yeah, it's it's gonna be an interesting year.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

It it is on the ballot, but it's a little different.

Ben Larson 2:53

Uh the 2026 election is the first midterm uh or presidential election since 2010 without statewide ballot initiatives. Um for legalization in regards to legalization. For legalization. And so, yeah, it in fact, I think there's a couple things we're we're trying to take away our our our cannabis rights. Um, so yeah, it it it's definitely a little bit of a different vibe this year.

Massachusetts Repeal And Idaho Lockout

AnnaRae Grabstein 3:22

Yeah, we're ending a 16-year streak this year for adult use or medical on statewide ballots, and instead we have two different states that do have cannabis going to the voters, but for more of repeal or prohibition type uh type outcomes. The first one is Massachusetts, it's question eight, and it would repeal adult use retail sales and home grow while retaining limited possession and medical cannabis. Adult use was approved by voters back in 2016, and um we have covered this extensive extensively, so we won't go into it too much today. Uh, but the other state that we haven't talked about quite as much that has cannabis on the ballot is Idaho, and it's HJR4. And this would give the legislature the exclusive authority to legalize marijuana and offer no and another. I'm gonna go back and do that again. Um in Idaho, we have HJR4, which would give the legislature exclusive authority to legalize marijuana, uh, taking the authority away from citizen initiatives. So in Idaho, there is no current cannabis program. And this ballot initiative says, voters, if you say yes to this, this means that you will not be able to legalize in the future at all, which I find very strange.

Ben Larson 4:52

What the hell? Look, I I remember talking about this when it first surfaced, and it's just like, why as a voter would you vote to not have rights? It's just pretty wild. It's just ridiculous. Like, if it gets any yes votes, like what the hell is wrong with you people? Seriously.

Local Measures And Cannabis Normalization

AnnaRae Grabstein 5:11

Okay, well, so moving on to some local ballot initiatives, there are lots of local ballot initiatives that we see in at least five states. They're they're covering issues like local taxation, how many licenses can exist, um, what operators will pay for those licenses, and even some like local bans or local zoning control. Um, we're not going to go into an in-depth analysis of all these local initiatives, but I did want to just highlight that those two statewide ballot initiatives are not the only places that voters will be voting for cannabis locally. And we know how important local initiatives are to turning on or off cannabis opportunities. We've seen that.

Ben Larson 5:58

I do think this is interesting, like as a metric for the industry to be tracking, because it is kind of like the normalization of cannabis. So it's like, I think it's uh 11 municipalities across five states, you know, it's like as an industry, if that number keeps moving upwards, it just continues to show that cannabis has has achieved kind of mainstream status. Because when you look at your ballots, if you ever do, like you will see the same kind of topics. Like you have transit conversations, you have schooling conversations, taxes, obviously. And so if we see a more ubiquitous representation of cannabis throughout these election cycles, like it's an interesting, it's an interesting thing that I never thought of of like something that we can track as an industry to see how relevant we are.

AnnaRae Grabstein 6:43

Yeah, absolutely. And and this normalization concept is that there's lots of other local initiatives that are handling local business issues. Um and so yeah, it is like us getting to join the mainstream. Um moving on to some other statewide races that aren't specifically initiatives around cannabis.

Governor Races Where Cannabis Matters

AnnaRae Grabstein 7:06

We are seeing cannabis become an edge issue. And Texas is probably the state where it's most potent. There is the race for governor, um, the current incumbent governor, Greg Abbott versus Gina Hinayosa. Um, and then there's the lieutenant governor race of Dan Patrick versus Vicky Goodwin, and the U.S. Senate race of Ken Paxton versus James Talico. Um, and all three of these races have included something related to Texas, hemp THC, and marijuana broadly in their platforms. Um, across the board in Texas, it does seem that the Republicans are taking a much more conservative approach to THC and access, um, especially through the hemp market, versus the Democrats, which are uh campaigning on a platform of much more allowance and access than the Republicans in Texas right now. And I think that the Democrats are seeing this as something that might bring out more progressive voters to the polls this November.

Ben Larson 8:19

Yeah, really interesting. I mean, if Paxton ends up winning, I'll be phenomenally surprised just because he can't even get a nice uh compliment out of the person who has endorsed him. It's like watching watching Trump and Paxton duels is pretty hilarious. I mean, it's a one-way duel, but um yeah, uh it it's really interesting to think about access and the hemp versus cannabis conversation, because in Texas, to your point, you know, you have the Democrats that are uh are fighting for more access through these different pathways. Um but here in California it's been kind of kind of the opposite, right? We've we've had greater restrictions regarding hemp coming from the Democratic side. Um so it's not you know the it doesn't necessarily rhyme from from state to state about who is supporting what.

AnnaRae Grabstein 9:12

Yeah.

Ben Larson 9:13

Seemingly.

AnnaRae Grabstein 9:14

Yep. And then going to Pennsylvania. We really covered Pennsylvania in the last episode uh in depth, but just calling out that uh Pennsylvania is definitely another state where the governor race has included a lot of conversation around adult use. And in particular, the incumbent governor Shapiro has repeatedly proposed adult use legalization. And Stacy Garrity, the Republican candidate, had said that she will veto an adult use bill if one comes to her desk if she's elected.

Where To Follow Weekly Cannabis Politics

Ben Larson 9:52

Yeah. Uh quick note you're you're referencing having previously talked about some of these issues and topics. And while we might have on this show, uh, we also do so on This Week in Cannabis that we do with our friends over at Cultivated every Friday. Uh, so tune in live for that. Also, Cultivated and Jeremy Burke are just doing an incredible job, especially when it comes to Massachusetts and trying to stick it back to Sam, who is investing a lot of money into trying to swing this uh this repeal measure in Massachusetts just through straight-up lies and and and poor, I don't know, very unsavory tactics.

AnnaRae Grabstein 10:31

Uh I love Jeremy Burke and the cultivated team. We have such a good time uh getting to be talking heads about cannabis news and politics with them on Fridays. Super grateful for that. Um, let's talk about the other governor races, where we have a number of uh races where candidates have differing positions. It looks like we've got about six governors' races where candidates are both stating their positions on cannabis legalization. And maybe not surprisingly, the divide falls neatly along party lines. The Democrats are supporting legalization while the Republicans oppose it or favor a more limited approach. Uh and hemp drive THC is certainly complicating the traditional partisan divide, particularly in Texas. But in general, the Republicans are still taking that more conservative approach, whereas the Democrats are more um interested in allowing the hemp THC. So um those those states are Wisconsin uh with Crowley versus Tiffany, Kansas with Holster versus Masterson, uh New Hampshire, Wormington versus uh Ayote, uh Florida, Jolly versus Donalds, Tennessee, Green versus Blackburn, um, and Texas that we already mentioned.

Ben Larson 11:58

So interesting. Yeah, this whole narrative of us cannabis uh becoming a more bipartisan issue is less the sharing of um liberalness around cannabis and more just maybe not being pure prohibitionist, which is fine. I'll I'll take it. Uh, but it's not this narrative that I would expect where it's like, oh, it just depends where you are. Um so yeah.

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:24

And we've we've seen the polls over the past few years. Like, we know that the large majority of Americans support access to cannabis and legalization, certainly of medical programs and and usually of adult use programs as well. So this just shows that the political establishment continues to be slow to catch up and is also being protective of what I consider to be sort of like historic legacy messages that their parties have held on to that don't necessarily represent the constituents.

Ben Larson 12:59

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and as we mentioned at the top of the hour or show, uh California is also choosing its next governor. Um, so a decade after adult use legalization, the state's legal cannabis businesses still face uh major challenges. So we're bringing Steve Hilton on, the Republican gubernatorial candidate, and we're gonna dive into all these things. And Javier Becerra, if you're watching or listening, uh, we'll have you on too. Um, in the meantime, should we plug our high spirits morning mixer?

High Spirits Mixer And Sponsor Spotlight

AnnaRae Grabstein 13:33

Yes. Next week we're gonna have onset the Akatan and we're gonna be talking about the morning mixer and everything going on in the cannabis market with him, which is his kind of corner of the world. Um, it's gonna be great. If you want to learn what we're gonna be doing in Vegas and hear all of us opine on our opinions of the best and worst companies in the space, uh, you know where to find us.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

We want to give a huge shout out to one of our big sponsors for the High Spirits Morning Mixer in Las Vegas, the Kind Cannabis Advantage Program. Running a cannabis business is simpler when you have a single source for payroll, HR, employee benefits, and insurance. That's the Kind Cannabis Advantage Program through Excel Workforce, a PEO solution built specifically for the cannabis industry. Kind brings your essential back office services together in one coordinated program. From payroll processing and tax administration to electronic onboarding, time tracking, and employee benefits, you have one source to help manage your workforce. The program also includes workers' compensation and employment practice liability insurance, or EPLI, for covered claims supported by hands-on HR compliance assistance, safety training, and risk management guidance. Qualified applicants also gain access to exclusive specialty insurance programs available only through Kind, providing coverage options tailored to the unique needs of cannabis businesses. Through Excel Workforce, you can connect your PEO program with additional commercial insurance and risk management solutions, bringing more of what your business needs under one roof. Spend less time coordinating vendors and more time supporting your people and growing your business. One source, more solutions. Visit Excelworkforce.com slash kind, Excel spelled A-X-E-L, and explore their solutions for cannabis operations. Thank you to Kind, Cannabis Advantage Program for supporting this year's High Spirits Morning Mixer in Las Vegas.

Ben Larson 15:29

Man, I'm so excited for this year. The applications for the invitations are already rolling in at a very good clip. I don't feel like we've even been promoting it all that much yet. Uh, so it is gonna be bigger and better than ever. So make sure uh you get your application in uh so that we can make sure that we get you on the list. Um thank you. Yeah, thank you for for coming along with this ride. Uh I think next year uh we're gonna go even bigger. Wake up, everybody! We are deep into the midterm election cycle, and we are bringing to you the Republican gubernatorial candidate here in the great state of California, Anne Ray. You ready to go?

AnnaRae Grabstein 16:11

Let's do this, let's meet Steve.

Steve Hilton’s Path To California

Ben Larson 16:14

All right, excited, Mr. Steve Hilton. Welcome to High Spirits. You're running as a Republican in a deeply democratic state. Uh and I don't know if anyone's noticed, but it's not really a California accent that you have. So, like tell us, like, who is Steve Hilton and why would you do such a crazy thing in our state of California?

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Well, I love California. That's a simple answer. There's nowhere better than than California. I moved to in 2012, as you can tell, from the accent, as you mentioned, originally from the UK. Um, although actually, one step before that, my parents are Hungarians, so they were immigrants to the UK from Hungary. They were they were uh fleeing communism. So I was born in England, um, regular working class immigrant home. My first job was project manager for a construction company. Uh worked hard, got to Oxford University, um, had a whole career in England, including in business, starting my own companies, a couple of restaurants, consulting firm. But I also worked in politics for a little bit, and then ended up working with David Cameron, helping him get elected prime minister, and then worked in 10 Downing Street as senior advisor to the prime minister, really focused on domestic policy. Uh, that was 2010. And then in 2012, after a couple of years doing that um for family reasons, moved here to California. My wife was then the uh chief communications officer for Google. So she had a big job with Google, and I had a big job in the government. We had, when our second son was born, it was all a bit crazy. So we decided to move to California really for the sanity of our family, uh, to the Bay Area. I taught at Stanford for a couple of years. Um, we loved California, decided to make it our home, became American citizens. I started a tech company here, uh, then had a very improbable turn in my career when I was invited to host a show on cable news, on Fox News, did that for a few years, but then really wanted to get back to what I've always been, most of my career has been and my life professionally, which is doing things, not just you know, talking about things. And so um I love, as I mentioned, love California could see it's really going off the rails. You know, we're not in good shape as a state. And so about five or six years ago, something like that, um, I started a California-focused policy organization, Golden Together, started traveling the state, meeting people, learning about our problems, developing solutions. And really, that was the process that led to me a few years ago deciding, all right, I'm gonna try and do something about it myself and run for governor. And here I am.

Ben Larson 18:45

Yeah, yeah, make California golden again.

AnnaRae Grabstein 18:48

Yeah. There you go. And in learning about you, I know that a big part of your mission in the UK and even now with your campaign is about modernizing the Republican Party, sort of rebranding it, so to speak. And and I'm wondering what a modern Republican Party looks like to you.

Pragmatic Politics And Abundance Agenda

SPEAKER_00 19:06

So it's really, I mean, it my main focus is actually the immediate word that comes to mind when I when I um think about that question is kind of pragmatism. What I mean by that is I'm not an ideologue, I'm not a kind of tribal politician. Most of my life, my friends have been, if anything, on the left. And I'm very I'm a very kind of open person, and I don't want to tell anyone how to live. I don't want to lecture people about um how they should be, and that's one of the reasons I love California, is that in a way, this this is something that I say often. California means to America, what America means to the world. What I mean by that is that it's the home of all the great qualities I think we associate with America or should be at its best, freedom and energy and optimism and ambition. And there's something, some part of why California's been successful, I think, is what I call the rebel spirit. That's actually, if you go back, you know, why have we been this incredible place that's built these amazing industries for over a century that have completely dominated the world from entertainment, obviously, to tech and now AI, is because we got people who've come here over and over again to do things differently, to challenge convention. Um, if you look at Silicon Valley, for example, the origins of that, it's a pretty kind of hippie-ish um vibe that really produced the early pioneers of tech. And I feel very much part of that. And so the simple point, I suppose, is I you know, you know, we should be at our best, the you know, we should be the part our party of freedom and openness and do your thing and don't let people boss you around and tell you what to do. And that's really what it means to me. And so when I say pragmatic, that's what it means. That's just, you know, we don't want to be a party or a goal, you know, certainly as a governor that's kind of yelling at people to do this, live like this. That's what I think we got too much of in California, right? We've ended up after 16 years of of one-party rule, which was this ridiculous, bloated nanny state bureaucracy bossing us around from morning till night, constantly telling us what to do and how to live. Um, you know, what kind of you know, what kind of house to live in, what kind of car to drive, what tires to use on the car they tell you how to drive. It's just crazy. And so I think that just let's just fix problems, get government doing its basic functions efficiently, and that's it. Let people do the rest, do their own thing.

Ben Larson 21:48

Yeah, man. I I I'm feeling this viscerally. Like, I I know Anna Ray and I are constantly going back and forth about this kind of stuff. And being an entrepreneur in California, it's like we speak so fondly of like the old. Old days of like building things quickly. And I'm I'm even reading this book right now, Abundance, by Ezra Klein and talking about how government just constantly now getting in the way of innovation. And um, so this is all sounding very refreshing and great. And I and I think we need a modernized Democratic Party too, just like I think everyone. Yeah, I mean, this is the point. I mean, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I love that. I love that. Sorry to cut cut across to you. I love that book. And in fact, abundant, but even before they wrote that book, um, I, if you look at the policy papers that I was writing at my policy in Golden Together um over the last five or six years, it's that word is in all of them. I mean, I might I think the title of the energy papers is abundant energy or energy abundance and water abundance, abundant housing. And that again is what I think California should be. Like we are the place where anyone from anywhere can do anything. We can grow anything because we have the most fertile farmland, we can make anything, build anything, invent anything. But the but now it's become so difficult to do anything because the endless, bloated nanny state, you know, regulating everything and driving business out and entrepreneurs out. But the point I always make about abundance is right idea, but wrong party in terms of delivering it, because it totally cuts across where the Democratic Party has ended up, which is this very um over-regulating, censorious, um, actually, I would say somewhat authoritarian mindset where, you know, we know best, we have a particular um view of how people should live, and we want to impose that on everyone. And with there's all these ideological priorities that we have, and we're gonna make sure that they are enforced, and it doesn't matter how it affects people, and it's just the opposite, and you're never gonna get abundance that way. Abundance requires a policy agenda of removing obstacles to growth and uh.

Cannabis Taxes And The Laffer Argument

AnnaRae Grabstein 24:04

Let's let's thread the needle then right back to the cannabis industry, because you have talked about cannabis throughout your campaign in a way that we haven't heard gubernatorial candidates before, honestly. Generally, people have stayed away from it, it hasn't been a part of the campaign message. And you're talking about innovation and farming and great industries and pioneering perspectives and people. And that's very much what has taken place in cannabis over the last 50 years in California and through the process of legalization. And I know Ben was about to ask you a question about this, so I want to let him do it, but I wanted to just jump in and make sure that we had an opportunity to make sure that we also got to platform your perspective on the cannabis industry and and where you think some of the improvements are. So, Ben, what was on your mind? What did you want to talk to Steve about?

Ben Larson 24:58

Oh man, there's so much. Um well, let's start like because I did see an Instagram video recently talking about the the misappropriation of the of the tax dollars that that are coming from the cannabis industry. Everyone knows we're getting taxed a high hell. Too much tax. It's it's crushing the industry. But even those dollars that are collecting aren't going to the places that they're supposed to be going. And so I was hoping that you could just elucidate a little bit of that for for our viewers.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Well, I'd love I'd love to, I'll talk about the tax thing from both ends, as it were. Um the first thing I've got to tell you is one of it's actually one of my favorite moments of being in America. Um, uh on in and in relation to anything at all. It was while I was hosting my show on Fox, and I came across a story from California, which was this is you know, some years into legalization, and you had a couple of Democrat let's state legislators. I don't know, I read it in the media, or they they I whatever. I I they made an intervention um in the debate, which is to say we said we legalized the industry, um, and we we thought we would have a nice legal industry that was you know crowd out the illicit industry, and we it's gonna be taxed and it's all gonna be great. And entrepreneurs and and business will flourish, it's all gonna be cool. But they said that hasn't happened, and actually the illicit industry is growing, and the legal industry isn't. And one of the reasons for that is that we are taxing it too much. The taxes are too high. And they made this hell this argument, which was actually, if we reduce the taxes on cannabis, we'll actually end up with more revenue because you'll have more um growth, you'll have more activity in the market, it'll it'll grow the number of um of people of the economic sort of output of the industry. Um, and I had that and I thought that's brilliant, because that argument, that economic argument, is actually a very now you know decades-long economic theory, which is if you you reduce tax rates, you increase tax revenue because you enable and encourage more economic activity. It's actually known as the Laffer curve, because there was an economist called Art Laffer, who's been around a long time, actually based in California for a long time. I didn't know this at the at the point at the time. Um, but he was the the it the the sort of main architect of President Reagan's tax cuts based on this theory. And that's actually what has become known pretty pejoratively among Democrats as trickle-down economics. That's what that is. It's that if you reduce rates, you increase revenue by more activity. And so I and for years the Democrats have railed against this, and then to see a couple of Democrat state legislators basically, they didn't know it and they weren't saying it, embrace the Laffer. I thought the whole thing was hilarious, and I was gonna make a thing on it. And Laffer was the beginning of the 80s, and so I assumed that he wasn't around anymore, etc. And I looked into it, it turns out he is very much alive, very vibrant and active, now lives in Nashville. And I thought, wow, I want to get can I get him on my show? How amazing. Remember, I read, I studied him in economics at Oxford um decades ago, and somehow, because this is America and everything's possible, I end up interviewing Art Laffer on my show and saying to him, Did you ever imagine that the Laffer curve would come back into fashion, promoted by Democrats who want to save the California cannabis industry? It was a beautiful moment.

Ben Larson 28:41

It's really amazing. This like this keeps happening, and I'm glad he gets a lot of credit for it. But this is a centuries-old conversation. Like Rockefeller actually sponsored a study, it's called Tord Liquor Control, where it basically wrote the playbook. Like Rockefeller was a teetotaler, but he agreed that we needed to reduce barriers, lower taxes so that an industry could actually flourish. And we just completely ignore this like continuous reminder that this is what it takes to build an industry.

Illicit Market Crackdown And Fairness

AnnaRae Grabstein 29:09

I will say that there's yeah, I want to just I want to reply it as a kind of a counter-perspective here, slightly, is that I think one of the issues that people are highlighting when they're talking about reducing taxes to drive transactions and legal cannabis, is because there's all of this competition with illicit unlicensed cannabis that doesn't have to pay the tax. And that's the difference from the trickle-down economics is there isn't a a parallel economy that isn't participating in the tax that you're competing with. That's a great point. That's what we're up against in California, is that there's like two or two or multiple cannabis economies happening and they are competing with each other, and that that inequity is creating a lack of participation as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

So great point. And actually it reminds me of another point, which I I apply broadly in California very strongly, actually, because it was brought home to be a different industry, but same point, which is um the other week, now about a month ago, I guess, um I'd been on the road, you know, a lot in this campaign, um, fighting this campaign, unlike anyone else. You know, I they they told me when I started, well, here's how it works. You don't really do retail politics in California, it's too big. You just make your announcement in some boring hotel room and then you sit at home and phone people for money, and then you run ads. And I thought, well, that's doesn't sound right to me. So I've been to every one of our 58 counties. I've seen a lot of the counties where the cannabis, the illicit cannabis industry is a very, very big issue. So I'm very connected to that and very aware of it. We can get into that in a second. But one of the points on what the what you've just made, I saw very clearly here in LA. I'm speaking, actually, I'm not in the where am I? I'm in Bakersfield right now. We're in LA yesterday. Um, and um, about a month ago, a a retailer, um, couple, Latino couple, um, US citizens now, they've been running this shoe store in South LA for 14 years. They knew someone in our campaign, they wanted to me to go there. And so I sounded interesting. We went, we went through all the litany of problems that they have: the taxes, the cost of everything, the hassle, insurance, everything. But that's not why they wanted me to visit. They took me outside and we walked along the street. We were for two city blocks in LA. Um, you know, it's in it's not in a particularly nice part of LA. You've got all the trash and nonsense, but they've got this beautiful little shoe store. They're Pride and Joy. They've been running it for 14 years. It's their California dream. All along the sidewalk for two city blocks, and we could have gone much further, street vendors. Street vendors, and they are selling mostly shoes and the t-shirts we have a lot of shoes. So they are loot, this this lovely little store is just being is completely dying. All their customers are going to the street vendors because the street vendors don't pay tax, don't pay rent, don't pay insurance, don't have to get the permits from the city, nothing. So they have not a tiny amount level of costs, and therefore can undercut them on price. And so this legal immigrant business is being shut down. And then you look at why that happened, um, they didn't know why how I looked into it. In 2018, they passed a law in California legalizing street vendors across the state with no ability for any local government to do anything about it, including on the grounds of competition with brick and mortar businesses. And so that's why this is happening. And it was done in order to give an income um stream to illegal immigrants. And as a result of that, we now have this beautiful little business going out of business because they're on the side of, I think, you know, they're on the wrong side of this. Instead of, and that's what I want to be in terms of coming but bringing it back to cannabis, on the side of all the people working hard, doing the right thing, complying with all the laws, the complexity, you know, you know, doing their best to wade through the nonsense and the regulation. I went to a dispensary in in Sacramento and just learned so much from that visit about how hot, just how much bullshit there is to wade through from the state regulation and the city, and you know, it's just crazy. And and that's why it's that and and and and on the on the same side, we're not doing nearly enough. I mean, why aren't they shutting down the illicit industry? In particular, when you've I mean, just it's it's crime. And it's a lot of it, you've got cartel involvement, you've got Chinese, you know, it's insane to me that that it's just being allowed to operate in the way it is, the illicit industry in California. That's one priority I'll have is to shut it down. I mean, and use state law enforcement resources to do it.

Ben Larson 33:42

Yeah, yeah. Enforcement's a really big piece of the puzzle. The the counterbalance to to the piece of the puzzle is is the structure that we're we're forced to operate in. And and so, like a lot of these operators, I've talked to a lot of dispensary owners. We everyone points to Prop 64 as this massive impediment. And so I I guess what kind of mechanisms do we have? Like, how do we get change when it's been perceived, like I mean, for the last decade, everyone's just like, oh, it's Prop 64, you can't change it. And like there has to be a lot of people. You can't change what? Can't change what? What is it?

Fixing Prop 64 Through Implementation

AnnaRae Grabstein 34:16

The voter initiative. It's just hard to change the rules in a voter initiative.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

So we want to know how if you become governor, how can you help alleviate the pain the industry's feeling as a result of well there's the the one side I've just mentioned, which is the um the illicit, you could you know that you can stop that uh unfair competition. Um but also I mean, as I understand it, a lot of the problems are actually a local implementation. It's not, you know, there's the state agents, and it's not just what's written in the initiative, it's then how it's applied and interpreted and overextended both by state and local regulators. And that's something that you can absolutely deal with, the kind of people you appoint to the state agencies, and using your convening power and leverage as governor with counties and cities. Absolutely. And and this is what I think we don't have right now is people with a business mindset and a problem-solving attitude in government, where they just say, well, hang on, it's where they listen to an industry like this, which I already have to a certain extent, and my door will be very open, um, uh, because I want to see the industry thrive and flourish, and and and and get on the phone and say, right, you're I'm hearing this. What's going on here? And a lot a lot, a lot of govern executive branch government, not legislature, but executive branch government, is actually that is is just saying, what the F is going on? You're supposed to be doing this, but what I'm hearing is this. You know, that is the and that's what that's the difference you'll have with a governor who's got that kind of experience and attitude. Um, as well as well as the you know, the more sort of traditional forms of of how I help, for example, on the enforcement side against the illicit industry. And taking a look at the tax point where you've got we've got a lot of allies on that in Sacramento.

Ben Larson 36:05

Okay, Steve. We we are being told that we have to let you go, but I'm gonna sneak in one last question just to give you one last chance to close it out with our listeners. Um like we said, you're running as a Republican in a deeply democratic state. Um, and and this one is is being inspired by uh a WhatsApp channel with the OGs that we have in this state. And so um you're trying to swing democratic votes, people that do want to wake up and and see a fresh new approach to California. A lot of those people are are also never Trumpers, and I just want to call it what it is. And you have received an endorsement from Donald Trump, and and you know, we're we're talking about dispelling tribalism and all that, and I would say that as a president, he has created a lot of that. How do you want people to think about this? Like, how do you get people to get behind you, reach across the aisle and and get you into that governor seat?

SPEAKER_00 36:59

Just just one thing. I will end with that. Thank

Normalizing Cannabis And The Trump Question

SPEAKER_00 37:02

you. But I um I just would say one last excuse me, one last thing on the industry, which is apart from any of the I mean, I was asked the other day when I did this conference in in LA, you know, what's your vision after four years of of it? And I hadn't really thought about it that way, but what I said was, and what I want to say to you to you all and everyone watching and listening is just normal, right? Normalize this into, you know, destigmatize, normalize this industry. Just one of the great things I learned when I was really getting into it. And to be honest, it's not something personally that I um have experienced much, you know, so it's not like I'm really into it, but um I loved learning about it, and one of the things that I really enjoyed learning about was the comparison with wine and why can why it's such an important industry for California, and why we have a particular, you know, suitability in terms of growing and so on. I loved learning about all that, the artisan aspect of it. And so I just think it's something that story isn't being told. Um, and it still's got that sort of slightly shady kind of reputation to a certain extent among some people, anyway. And I think what one thing I can really do is that normalization process, just through talking and being and showcasing, and and I think that's actually very important. Um, in terms of the broader political question, yeah, I mean it's true. I'm running as a Republican, uh, massively outnumbered in terms of voter registration, Republicans, Democrats in California. Yes, endorsed by President Trump. Look, I didn't ask for his endorsement. I was surprised to get it. Um, but I'm I'm not gonna run away from it. I was very, I said, I know I'm a new American citizen. It's an incredible honor the first time you run for office to be endorsed by the president of the United States. And I think on a practical level, it's actually helpful to have a governor with a uh, you know, with a good relationship with the federal government. It means we can get things done. Actually, it might well very much help in the details of what we're talking about, for example, and in terms of enforcement. So I think that's a useful thing. But the but the basic political point is look, I'm a very independent-minded person. I mean, back in the day in the UK, if you and if you look at what I've written and argued for and how I've been in over the course of my career, everyone will, it's very clear that I'm not a kind of, you know, um one-dimensional, um, you know, tribal political figure. I mean, the if you read my 2015 book, More Human, Designing a World Where People Come First, it's all about, it's it's got a railing against the kind of one size fits all, you know, bureaucratic mindset that's made our world very sort of, you know, black and white in many ways and centralized and distant from the human scale. So I'm all about decentralizing power, lifting people up, letting them do their thing. Um and on Trump specifically, you know, I just say to people, look, that of course I understand that there are millions of Californians who can't stand the president. I get it. Um, but with this this election isn't about that. It's not an opinion poll on the national government. I mean, some people may use it as that, but it really isn't. It's our chance to get some balance in the mix here in California. We've had 16 years of one party running everything, and it's not working. We can see. I mean, I don't want to get into the whole campaign speech, but you know, we got the highest cost of living in the country, the highest taxes for the worst results. You look around our cities, I mean, it's just embarrassing. The squalor, the trash, the homelessness situation that's just been, you know, 20 years or more. And you don't see this in other places. You don't see it in other states, you don't see it in other countries. We are the richest state in the richest country on earth, and yet life is impossible. We have that from those people, we have the highest poverty rate in America, the highest unemployment rate. Something's not working. And so the another four years of one party rule, how's that gonna help? And so my argument is very simple. It's right behind me. On it's, you know, just try it. Just try it, okay? Four years. That whatever happens in this election, that the Democratic Party, the Democrats will still control the state legislature, probably with a two-thirds majority. Uh, the Democrats will run every big city and every big county, whatever happens in the governor's race. So all we're talking about is a bit of balance um to push back against some of the excesses, the cost, and the craziness coming out of Sacramento. And I'll just be very clear. I'm not going to take orders from the White House, but I won't take orders from Sacramento either. I'm my own person. And I that's the simple message. Just, you know, just try it. I've got a simple set of positive, practical things I want to get done for the state. Your first $150,000 tax-free, $3 gas, $73 vehicle registration, cleaning up homelessness, starter homes for young families, pragmatic things that will make life easier and better, um, and get us back on the track to restoring the California dream. So that's it. That's the message. Just try it.

Ben Larson 42:04

Love it. Love it.

AnnaRae Grabstein 42:06

Thank you so much. Um, Republican gubernatorial candidate Steve Hilton. Thanks for being with us today.

Ben Larson 42:12

Of course, thank you. Great to be with you. That's Steve Hilton.

SPEAKER_00 42:15

Okay, very good. Small business owner. That's what it says there, because that's been that's what I've been most of my career. Thank you guys for watching.

Ben Larson 42:22

Amazing. Thank you, Steve.

AnnaRae Grabstein 42:23

Steve.

Post Interview Reactions And What’s Next

Ben Larson 42:26

All right. Anna Ray, what do you think?

AnnaRae Grabstein 42:29

You know, it's pretty interesting. We talked about how California has been controlled by Democrats for so long, and it had me doing some side research. And over the past 50 years, 23 of the years have been under a Republican governor. So this Democrat Democratic-controlled California is not necessarily the way that it's always been. Um, we had Republicans kind of all through the 80s and much of the 90s. And you know, maybe maybe Steve has a chance. It's hard for me to believe that a uh Republican has a chance in today's electorate and with all the voters out there that I talk to, but um, I really appreciate that he's taken an interest in cannabis for sure.

Ben Larson 43:18

Yeah, it is really interesting that he points out, right? It's just like we will still have two-thirds control of Congress, and when I say we Democrats, and introducing a bit of balance into it and building a bridge to to the federal government. Like it does kind of suck where we're at war with with DC perpetually in our current state, with our current leadership, and getting shit on and you know, these loose threats of like, oh, just bomb LA. Like it's not healthy for for our state to be in that position. So it would be nice to to have a bit of balance. And and and I agree, it's like it's just it doesn't seem

AnnaRae Grabstein 44:00

Be working, but um yeah, I you know to be fair if you're a California voter, you've you've got 12 days. Are you still undecided? I don't know.

Ben Larson 44:09

12 days, 12 days, yeah. And like to be fair, Javier Pacera, if you're watching, uh, come on the show. Like, we would love, we'd love to get your side. Um, and so I don't know, seems very, very, very consequential.

AnnaRae Grabstein 44:23

Yeah, absolutely. And so awesome that a gubernatorial candidate wanted to come and talk cannabis and speak directly to our audience. And that that gives me some hope that this issue and this industry has got the attention of folks that understand that it is a major economic driver and a and a cultural stalwart in in this state as well. So it's like the people care about cannabis, the culture has been driven by cannabis's participation in our communities, and and certainly there's there's a lot ahead as it relates to everything from the compliance and regulation, shutting down the illicit market, and creating success for businesses.

Ben Larson 45:09

Um, so yeah, and I really loved what you were talking about on the last show that I wasn't able to be uh in attendance for. It's just like, you know, maybe maybe cannabis isn't a a maybe there isn't a cannabis voter specifically, but it is absolutely a motivating uh topic that gets people out to the polls and then they will vote for cannabis. And so um, yeah, really interesting. I don't know. What do you think, folks? Are you gonna get out and vote this year, especially if you're in California? We need it. Um yeah, once again, thank you to our teams. Our producer, Eric Rossetti, who's jumping on at the drop of a hat to make sure that we can do these shows. Uh, we're gonna hopefully bring more exciting guests to you, uh, usually at our regular times, but sometimes not. Uh, thank you to our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer.

YouTube Push, Mixer Invite, Farewell

Ben Larson 46:07

If you've enjoyed this podcast, please do us a favor and go follow us on YouTube. Anna Ray, especially wants to hit 1,000 by the end of this year. I think it's a big goal, but hey, we like big goals. Let's do things. We can do hard things. Uh oh yeah, and we have our morning mixer coming up. Uh, the link to that is in the show notes. Uh, go get your invite now. Thank you for listening. As always, folks, stay curious, stay informed, and most importantly, keep your spirits high.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Until next time, that is the show.