Cold Open On The Continuing Resolution

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Yeah.

AnnaRae Grabstein 0:01

By the time this episode comes out, uh the continuing resolution will likely already be voted for and announced. So this is one of those things where the content might be stale by the time the content is well then.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Woohoo!

Back To School And Back To News

Ben Larson 0:45

Hey everybody, welcome to episode one hundred and fifty-one of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson. And I'm Anna Ray Grabstein. And we're recording Tuesday, September 1st, 2026.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Happy September! We made it.

Ben Larson 1:02

Uh we have a cannabis business news roundup for you today. It's just me and Anna Ray. Anna Ray and I. Whatever. Something like that. Something like that. It is back to school time. Hallelujah. Maybe I'll learn when to use me's and eyes, uh, or my kids will. And I'm just I'm so excited to be here in this moment with all of you. Settling back into a routine. I feel like my nervous system is just easing back into everything.

AnnaRae Grabstein 1:31

It's like a whole new you that I'm settling in with today, Ben. I'm so happy to see you again.

Ben Larson 1:36

Yes, I am back. I also had a hard reset this weekend.

AnnaRae Grabstein 1:40

Uh you went to like a grown man's bachelor party, right?

Ben Larson 1:45

Grown man, air quotes. Yeah. Uh it was all my grown man friends from college. And I think we were doing some math. It had been about 10 years since our previous uh bachelor party. And I mean, I'm literally getting tool for this shit.

AnnaRae Grabstein 2:02

Well, so how do a bunch of guys in their mid-40s do a bachelor party? Is it the same as guys in their mid-20s?

Ben Larson 2:09

No.

AnnaRae Grabstein 2:12

That's all. That's all he's given us. Okay, okay. I guess it's like uh what happens if the bachelor party stays at the bachelor party code or something like that.

Ben Larson 2:22

I mean, we we were at this uh large home out in the middle of nowhere, somewhere between what is called Lake County, which no one knows about, and uh Napa County, uh, which sounds nice and fancy. And um there was a pool and no Uber. Uh that's how that's how middle of nowhere this was. Like we we went to call an Uber because we had to go to the lake and like no one would come and pick us up. So we had to like call or Google. I don't even know. I wasn't a part of the logistics here. We had to like Google a ride. I don't know. It was like setting us back in time a little bit, but we all survived.

Closet Cleaning As Leadership Mirror

AnnaRae Grabstein 2:59

Amazing. Well, so while you were off having your uh mid-40s bachelor party dream, um I settled into this weird peaceful moment and ended up spontaneously cleaning out my closet. And um, I know folks, this doesn't sound very exciting, um, especially on a cannabis business news podcast, but I'm telling you, I had this major unlock where I just started to see this as this metaphor for all of the things that we do in our lives as leaders and the way that we manage our business. And I was just realizing that, you know, the closet is this indicator, it's it's like a representation of self because it's like your personal space in this mass, massive kind of like world that we share with others. There isn't a lot of spaces that we have that are just our own. And I know for myself, I put a lot of effort into keeping the shared spaces really organized and aesthetically beautiful with nice ambiance, all these things. And then my closet is like this hectic place where I will pile things up and there's stuff that's been building up for decades, like old underwear that it was just time to throw away. And I realized I was like, you know, I talk a lot about how being a leader is also about showing up for yourself first, understanding the things that you can control and the things that you can't. And I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Not controlling my personal space in a way that I can be proud of and that is like a manifestation, a physical representation of the way that I want to show up in the world. Uh then I took that to business and I started thinking about kind of like the internal closet of our business as the inside of our business compared to the way that we show up for our customers. And sometimes those things are so different. So, anyway, I'm just I'm spinning out on all the things connecting these personal growth things to the way that we lead our businesses. You know, I just can't stop.

Ben Larson 5:03

I'm feeling slightly attacked here.

AnnaRae Grabstein 5:05

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

As I sit in my office that has started to resemble the closets that it's attached to.

Ben Larson 5:14

Um and yeah, I mean, like my ADHD brain is a little crazy, and I have piles like all over the place, and I know it's in those piles, and it's organized to me. But I try to like present myself as like organized and cleanly on the outside and for the company. Um, so to each his own. Um I think and if you want to help me come clean my closet, I would I would glad gladly accept

Cluttered Systems Versus Clear SOPs

Ben Larson 5:39

that.

AnnaRae Grabstein 5:39

Well, I think interestingly, another point of something that I learned is that um Target, big corporation, is doing something um to try to keep old textiles out of landfills um by now accepting instead of just donations, like people give clothes to goodwill and things, but Target is expect is now accepting worn-out textiles that you can take there, and they are starting to figure out what they can do with them. Um, they aren't promising that they're going to be recycled or reused, but they're promising that you can drop them off there and that they will do their best to divert them from the landfill.

Ben Larson 6:19

So does 20-year-old underwear count as textile?

AnnaRae Grabstein 6:23

Those uh went directly into the garbage can, did not donate them to Target, but my husband wanted me to. And I said, um, no, no, no, no, not this time. You know, I I hear you about the messy organization, and I want to make the point that I think messy organization is different than then really like putting the mirror back on ourselves in terms of the way that we take care of ourselves, and is it really how we want to be taking care of ourselves? And I think that's really what it is. As is is the closet as is a metaphor. It's really about the mirror on the way that you're showing up for yourself in all of the ways. Like the physical health, we talk about that one a lot. I think that it gets a lot of of airtime and it makes a lot of sense. Um, but also just the way that we take care of our things and the way that we organize our stuff helps us to move towards more peak performance. But also, I see it in companies all of the time where an enormous effort to show up for their customer in this very um authentic, thoughtful way, or a trade show booth, or an email, or a piece of content, and how much it gets um looked over and cared about. But then if you go into like the company's Google Drive, it's like disaster that you can't find anything, and naming mechanisms are completely out of sync, and nobody uses and and documents aren't being used, and you couldn't put your finger on a logo if you needed it.

Ben Larson 7:58

Um I will say we've been going through this uh audit process recently with CSQ, uh, which shout out to Darwin Lillard um and and the team. It's like next level for GMP cannabis, and wow, like it's it's very detailed in like all the systems, documentation. Like I've just never seen so many SOPs or references to SOPs in my life. Um, but shout out to our quality team that's like getting us through this because um it does feel very good to know that everything has its place, everything is is properly titled and and we're all trained up on it, you know. So it's um yeah, feels good.

AnnaRae Grabstein 8:40

I think you're right. It's it's that feeling good, it's like frees up creative space to get stuff done um when you clear the clutter and organize things and even get rid of old SOPs that that are outdated and no longer serve you. It's kind of the same thing as getting rid of those old clothes, is like having stuff that doesn't make sense or that's no longer current is a powerful move.

Ben Larson 9:01

Um I've I've said things to the team in a number of different ways over the years, but it's always uh process and structure create space for creativity. So it's like because you're creative, don't reject the process. Like having it there allows you more time and space to be creative.

Annual Reflection For Leaders Under Stress

AnnaRae Grabstein 9:19

Yeah. Well, and it's it's an interesting segue uh in the the Jewish high holidays are approaching, and uh there is an annual process around the high holidays that's about kind of returning to your core and and thinking about what happened in the year that just passed, um apologizing, making amends for the things that didn't go the way that we hoped in the year that we just finished, and setting intentions for the next year. And this is actually the first year that I realized how close that high holidays process is to the time of year that I'm doing annual planning uh with businesses. For some reason, I had just never connected it before, but I was like, oh, okay, I guess I guess the Bible not surprising for the timing with the Jewish community and business. The Jews are on to something on this one. Um but you know, it's just it has it's been a real year of firefighting in in cannabis so far. And um now uh lots of Jewish people are thinking about doing their annual audit of their life and of the year. But I think the same thing is like the process of thinking about how hard this year has been and being gentle on ourselves, um, kind of letting go of some of the shit that's been rough and thinking about how we're gonna get through it um in this next year uh is is a great opportunity, I think, and can be an exciting time to be able to let go, uh, every opportunity to let go.

Ben Larson 11:03

Yeah, I think in these in these rougher years, it as leaders, it it forces us to do more of that reflection than ever. It's like, yes, you're fighting the fires every day, but that means you're making rapid decisions that could change the trajectory of your company. And if you don't have your feet firmly on the ground about who you are, um, you can find yourself having made some some wrong turns along along the way. And so for us, that I mean, this process started probably in the early summer. Um, because so many changes had been made and we were adapting as as necessary, uh, the team was um basically asking me to help like re-establish the horizon and how all these decisions are still leading to that. And and the best way to do that is to not only know where you're going, um, but to clearly know where you come from. And and for us, uh, I've talked about the brand foundation before on the show. Um, you know, we we break it out multiple times a year and just be like, what do we stand for? Who are we? How do we engage with our community? Who do we serve? Like, how do we do it? And it's it allows you to like basically reflect on every decision being made and be like, you know, is this in line with our brand foundation? Does this still get us to where we ultimately want to go? And you and I were talking before the show, it's like there's a lot of shit going on this year. Um, but when I look at like the landing page for for marijuana moment, it's like, wow, what an exciting time. Like we're we're further than we've ever been. You know, it's top of mind for all the policymakers. You know, it's there's this continuing resolution that we'll we'll talk about shortly, but you go to the Hill or Politico non-cannabis publications, and you know, within the second paragraph, they're they're talking about hemp as like one of the major, major priorities.

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:58

So um yeah, I think there's there's a momentum building for sure. And within this, like looking forward as you revisit the past, I think there's so many scenarios. And and we've been talking about this too, about all of the different scenarios, some being downside scenarios and some being major exciting upside scenarios that are ahead. And and uh giving ourselves the space to look at all of them and to think about what it could all mean uh for businesses, for the people that work in the businesses, for the consumers, for all the things that surround the industry right now. It's really wild, exciting time.

Ben Larson 13:37

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Glasshouse Hits The New York Stock Exchange

Ben Larson 13:40

Should we uh start jumping into some news here? Yeah, let's do it. All right. I don't know if you all have been watching, but uh another cannabis company has has up listed on the NYSE. And that company is a California grown uh company called Glasshouse. And this is very interesting. First off, the video. The video is hilarious because you have a bunch of cannabis operators up uh above the of the bell. It says California grown cannabis on on the big screen um at the NYSE. And in that moment alone, you know, despite what you think of the operators, who's up there, like that's just like a and a moment that I wanted to take in, right? California grown cannabis on the New York Stock Exchange.

AnnaRae Grabstein 14:27

Um it's crazy. It really is. It it feels like it feels like a moment worth noting. And I saw it and I didn't, it didn't really compute for me till you called it out. And and then I realized what a big effing deal that really is. Um for so many of us that have been in this for a long time. It's this um it's this moment of like professionalization and legitimization that I think is actually something that that I have been fighting for since I started working in this space in 2009. Um, I used to talk about professionalization and legitimization, and I'm not sure uh what signal is greater than the headline of California Grown Cannabis behind the New York Stock Exchange.

Ben Larson 15:12

Yeah. And shout out to Graham for R for keeping it real and doing a little air toke up there, too.

AnnaRae Grabstein 15:18

He said do an air toke. And he was also still wearing his regular uniform of um a glasshouse hat and a t-shirt.

Ben Larson 15:26

I don't know if I've ever seen Graham without a hat on. Totally. But, anyways, it just comes at a really interesting time because there's so many questions. There is a lot happening this year. We're still trying to figure out what's happening with rescheduling and and the DEA applications. I know we filed an application, answered some questions, but it hasn't gone very far. So it's like, what is all this going to amount to? Like, um, yeah, I don't know. There's so many questions out there.

DEA Rescheduling Questions And Interstate Commerce

AnnaRae Grabstein 15:54

So many questions. Well, I love that segue because actually the DEA is starting to ask questions of cannabis operators that have applied for their registration um in the Rocky Mountain division, which encompasses Colorado, Montana, Utah, and Wyoming. And apparently they have sent um questionnaires to the medical marijuana businesses that filed under the rescheduling protections. And some of these questions, I don't know, I think they're hilarious and we have to talk about them. Yeah. Um there are some specific questions. There were 26 questions. They're not all worth reading, but I'd like to start with um the first one that really jumped out at me. This is uh a question the DEA asked the operator. Will you be ordering marijuana or marijuana products from other states?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Hmm. Can I? Uh it's it's maybe a bit easier if your glasshouse or your California is like, no, we're gonna be shipping to other states.

AnnaRae Grabstein 17:06

Yeah, um, what does it mean to order marijuana from another state? Uh, you know, interstate commerce is not settled at the moment. And um the DEA is asking this question as part of the registry. I'm wondering, is this a trap? Are you supposed to answer yes? And then they're giving you a they're creating a paper trail for some sort of future entrapment action? Or um or does this question exist because you actually can order marijuana from another state under the DEA's program?

Ben Larson 17:41

And it's just a simple yes or no. I like like is there is there is there an other box? Like can you feel like it depends?

AnnaRae Grabstein 17:49

Yes. So that was amazing. Um, and then the next one, will you be ordering synthetic cannabinoids? Sort of similar.

Ben Larson 17:58

It's like but also how do you, DEA, define synthetic?

AnnaRae Grabstein 18:03

Exactly. Last week we talked about how the FDA has um not published a list of cannabinoids that would help um industry stakeholders understand uh how cannabinoids are being defined and maybe what a synthetic cannabinoid counts as. So very interesting to see this question. Um and another one uh will you be ordering marijuana seeds or plants in order to grow at the dispensary location?

SPEAKER_01 18:31

Um there is to grow at the dispensary location?

AnnaRae Grabstein 18:36

Mm-hmm. Yeah, specifically to grow at the dispensary location. And and there is interestingly, the hemp ban has some implications on um on cannabis seed commerce as a result of uh cannabis seeds have been widely traded online and over state lines since the 2018 Farm Bill. It's one of the more lesser-known discussed elements when everyone else was focused on on hemp, uh intoxicating hemp products that proliferated in lots of places. At the same time, the 2018 Farm Bill created a path for cannabis seeds to be sold more widely over state lines and around the world. Uh, so this was also another interesting question. Like, is this some sort of entrapment that you're going to be ordering seeds from someone over state lines? And the DEA is looking to build some sort of a case about this. So really interesting questions. I uh wonder how folks are answering that.

Ben Larson 19:34

Questions that are unique to this division of the DEA? Because I don't recall these questions being highlighted when they did their first inspections in like Mississippi or wherever it was.

AnnaRae Grabstein 19:45

Yeah, so it's it's an interesting tension to note because the inspection process is not standardized nationally by the DEA. So they have all these different divisions, and each division is carrying out their own inspections differently, which is why it's notated that these questions are coming specifically from the Rocky Mountain division. Uh and the earlier inspections that we heard about were done in Mississippi, and that was from the New Orleans division. So um overlapping lists, but not identical. And uh most of the compliance questions are similar, like license transfers and ownership things. But some of these questions about interstate commerce or ordering marijuana from another state are are new.

Ben Larson 20:30

Yeah, it's like literally, it's like we this is what we are waiting for you to tell us we're allowed to do or not.

AnnaRae Grabstein 20:36

I know. Operators are literally being asked to commit answers to a federal file uh before rules are even written that tell them what they're allowed to do. And uh it is really wild. So it's give me a good laugh. I'm sure that the people that are being asked to actually answer the questions on a timeline aren't laughing as much as I am because you don't want to say, no, I won't be ordering cannabis from another state, and then you are able to later, and you're not allowed. Um, but you also don't want to say that you're gonna do something that you can't do and then not be granted the registration as a result of them entrapping you into the wrong answer.

Ben Larson 21:13

Oh, right, because we're still in the application phase. So it's yeah. Wow. Um, yeah.

PPP Loan Clawbacks And AI Whistleblowers

Ben Larson 21:21

Talk talk talking about filling out uh federal forms and not knowing the the potential consequences of it, uh, there's some other news out there uh where uh headset in particular with a number of other uh uh cannabis companies are being forced to pay back their PPP loans, or at least taking in into negotiations.

AnnaRae Grabstein 21:45

Yeah. Well, so Headset, um, who has been a friend of the podcast for a long time and as a data provider that you guys all uh likely are following, has settled a PPP loan fraud claim for $1 million. Dollars and some change. And it's a whistleblower uh case where there is this whistleblower called Side Solve LLC, that is an AI fraud mining firm. And they basically alleged that Headset was ineligible for a PPP loan that it received in February 2021 and that was later forgiven in August of 2021, because Headset's business serves the cannabis industry, which remains federally illegal. And um, because of the way that whistleblower lawsuits are structured, this LLC SideSolve gets to collect $100,000, which is 10% of the take that the government gets. And generally, in a whistleblower case under the False Uh Claims Act, relators is what they're called, can collect anywhere from 15 to 30% of the proceeds in these types of cases. And the fact that they're only getting 10% of headsets uh figure suggests that the government was involved in this one as well. This is not the first time that SideSolve has received a bounty from a whistleblower case that they filed related to a PPP loan. Um, they also received um close to $150,000 from another PPP loan whistleblow case against DockLite brands, which um is related to Marley Naturals IP holding company, also a cannabis-related company that had to pay back around $500,000 of a PPP loan. So just really mind-blowing about both this company and the fact that cannabis companies are just treated like second-class citizens over and over. Um, during this time when people really needed this money to keep their businesses open, it just seems very unfair to me.

Ben Larson 24:08

Well, I mean, the the implications of this too, just thinking about headset as a company versus DockLite Brands. DockLite Brands is got a portfolio of like cannabis products that they're selling to the marketplace versus headset, which is a software company, right? That yes, services these brands. So, what are the implications to all the other companies that do business with cannabis companies? Right. Yeah. And I I I think that's it'll be really interesting to see where this goes. I I do not like the precedent. This whole whistleblower concept is is kind of crazy because with AI, to your point, like it's just scale so so scalable to be able to just like have it go find all the all the companies that that match this profile.

AnnaRae Grabstein 24:51

Yeah, we talked about this on an earlier show about how AI has created an opportunity for um for there to be more quote perfect enforcement of laws. And I think this is an example of why imperfect enforcement of laws is inherently built into the American way as a way to make it so that we aren't getting in trouble for every single possible infraction that ever happens, like rolling through a stop sign. Um, and and you know, I have a a good friend who when the kids tattletale on each other, he turns to the kid and he points in their face and he says, careful, don't be a narc. And when I when I heard about side solve, snitches get stitches and and all I could hear was my friend Ben telling me, don't tell, you know, telling side solve. Like they just they need that finger in their in their face, and they need someone to say, Hey, side solve, don't be a narc. Uh, because yeah, great, good for side solve. They get some take of this whistleblower case, but these are companies that needed these PPP loans, just like all the other business businesses did. And um honestly, like my heart goes out to Headset. They're not a huge company. I'm sure a million-dollar fine is is a big deal for them, and this really sucks.

Ben Larson 26:16

Um I mean, I want to give a quick shout-out to to Alan Yang, who I know you know. Um he Al Alan helped us manage our finances early on before we we had in-house staff. And um, I remember going through this. We had, you know, like our company was a year and a half old when the pandemic happened. We had just raid raised a seed round. And, you know, we were doing everything we can at the moment to like try to like prolong our runway and and see what was going on and you know, all this happening. And he's like, don't do this. He's like, you guys you can get by without it. And it says right here, it's like you're a cannabis company. And like we're we're more closer to the docklight brands profile than we are to a to a headset profile. So uh yeah, we opted not to, uh, which was really hard in the moment. You know, it's like hundreds of thousands of dollars that supposedly was available to you. And um, it was those uncertain consequences, which again like brings me back to this moment with the DEA where it's like, how how impactful is this checkbox that that I'm staring at?

AnnaRae Grabstein 27:28

Yeah, it's serious. I mean, there is a lot of ongoing consequences to the government treating our $30 billion legal cannabis industry as if it doesn't exist federally. And and a group like Sidesolve is profiting off of off of that directly. And there's others that are doing it too, and creating uneven playing fields for cannabis businesses compared to others. And that plays out in the frustration that regulated cannabis businesses take to their policy fights when we're looking at the things that are happening, um, like the the hemp versus regulated cannabis battle. And, you know, if if if regulated cannabis businesses had the same treatment that other businesses did, I think that there would be a lot slower of a um defensive stature on some of on some of the challenges. And so I'm really looking forward to that momentum that you're starting to feel when you look at the front page of marijuana moment, meaning that cannabis businesses start to get treated more like other businesses. I believe it's happening, but it still feels like we're pretty far away.

Michigan Cannabis Taxes And Store Closures

Ben Larson 28:44

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we just we get it on all fronts, right? If it's if it's not something like what Headset is facing right now, it's it's insane taxes and just more stacking of more taxes. And uh we get to live through it here in California. Um, but we're not the only state. Uh Michigan is going going through it right now where they increase their tax rate uh pretty substantially at the beginning of the year, and there's already consequences starting to show.

AnnaRae Grabstein 29:13

Yeah, there is a dispensary group called Higher Love that just announced that they're closing five out of their nine dispensaries in the state, and they're specifically pointing at the the 24% wholesale tax that got added to their operations. And um this is a big deal because it just shows what happens when you take a 24% tax and you put it on top of an existing 10% excise tax plus a 6% sales tax. And um, in a falling market, you know, in in Michigan, recreational sales fell to 1.48 billion in the first half of 2026, down from 1.57 billion in the first half of 2025, down from 1.6 billion in 2024. So it's like each year it's been about a five to six percent decline. And while that's happening, the state's deciding to step in and add extra taxes, uh, which just seems like completely ridiculous. They have collected now 34 million uh from this new wholesale tax when they projected in their budget that during the same period they would collect $105 million. So they thought that they would be collecting three times more than they actually are collecting in reality.

Ben Larson 30:41

It just begs the question like, when are these state governments going to start hiring economists to tell you that you can't continue to squeeze blood from a stone? And like if you really want to create a viable economy, and maybe they don't, and like this is like you know, this is what I always like question is like, do they actually want cannabis to be viable in these states, right? Or is this just a way of doing a backdoor ban? Um, because if you truly wanted to make money off of it, you would allow a viable economy to proliferate and then you would tax from it. This is exactly what they did in alcohol, you know, uh af after prohibition. And it was Rockefeller, who was a teetotaler, wrote or he commissioned a paper, he didn't write it himself, but he commissioned a book. It was called Towards Liquor Control. Um I've mentioned this before. And it was like in order to make this a success and to eliminate the black market, you have to have minimal taxes and you need to actually support the economy. And all these states, especially the blue ones, seem to just be creating as much regulatory uh barriers as possible and just taxing it to high hill. And and I I don't understand where the logic is coming from.

AnnaRae Grabstein 32:04

Well, it's an interesting point of is this actually some sort of veiled attempt to not support the industry and to just try to reduce cannabis use overall? Because you're right, that is absolutely the path that uh alcohol took. And then even more recently, in the way that tobacco is taxed in this country and in other countries, the whole concept is that you make it so expensive and so overly taxed that you will deter people from purchasing and using it. And also, that's happening. We're seeing in in lots of blue states with gas taxes as well, of gas taxes becoming higher and higher as a way to encourage people to use less gas by buying more efficient cars or buying electric cars and things like that. And then at the same time, like using those proceeds to um to do other things that that the that the economy needs. The question, though, the thing that I think that says that that signal is incorrect, that the regulators in Michigan aren't trying to shut down the industry or get people to stop consuming cannabis is that $105 million projection. They're still projecting that people are going to be purchasing even more cannabis than they are today and paying their expensive tax. So they're not doing it with the intention of creating less uh purchasing. They are literally doing it to harvest dollars from the industry, um, even while the industry is in a state of crisis in their state. So yeah, it seems so short-sighted.

Ben Larson 33:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, they'll figure it out at some point, maybe. Um, I don't know.

AnnaRae Grabstein 33:55

But it's there is a bill to take it away to end the tax. Um it yes, and there there is, I can't remember if it's a state senator or somebody, uh a GOP state representative, James DeSana, introduced HB 6224 to repeal uh the wholesale tax. And it has been referred to the house appropriations in Michigan. So maybe they will get some release.

Ben Larson 34:21

Fingers crossed. Yeah. Uh meanwhile, the the the operators of these regulated markets, while they kind of suffer on this, you still hear them saying very clearly that they don't want people operating outside of that structure because it's not fair.

AnnaRae Grabstein 34:35

I know. Um it's yes. They they want to they want to maintain the broken structure instead.

Hemp Ban Extension Fight In Congress

Ben Larson 34:43

Which of course I'm I'm talking about the the hemp industry and uh the hotly debated kind of fairness or what should be hemp or or what have you. And today, uh the House of Representatives are, I guess, temporarily back in session to cast a vote on whether a continuing resolution that has hemp extension language just 30 days, 30 days to create more time for uh for considering the various legislation that's out there. Um it's expected to pass. But it's interesting is reading the publications from outside the cannabis industry, there's The Hill, Politico, etc., etc. Um, you know, pretty high up in the narrative. There's a few House members that are really uh willing to gum up the system and cast a dissenting vote because of the hemp issue. And obviously Andy Harris is is a major opponent to the hemp industry. He always has been, he hasn't faltered from there. Um but people from Texas are also um kind of stepping up, which we um brought up James Telurico on the last show. And so it's like interesting to hear how big of an issue this is for Texas, and um yeah, we'll see what happens today. Does the hemp industry get an extra 30 days to deliberate the various legislation out there, or does it get held to uh the November 12th ban?

AnnaRae Grabstein 36:14

So I think you're really close to this, Ben, and and we should talk about why anyone is excited about 30 days, really. I mean, we've had we've had this whole year to be looking towards this November 12th ban. And is the industry really going to make that much more sales in 30 days? What is it that this 30-day extension represents that has people so passionate about making sure that it either moves forward or that it doesn't?

Ben Larson 36:44

Yeah, I mean, there's a number of things, and and and I guess the the simplest answer is momentum. Um, so if if the hemp extension language is were were to be stripped from this and and to be passed through, um, the November 12th ban would be final. And and that would be the date that would come and and things would change. Meanwhile, uh all the other government vehicles, uh the funding, the funding bills for for next year and what have you, get extended out. So those conversations would be happen happening while the hemp hemp ban of November 12th remains. This extension kind of aligns hemp language with more funding bills for next year. And so it's an extra 30 days that allow you to deliberate, you know, what might be acceptable beyond the current language of hemp, and it gives you opportunities to talk about cannabis seeds or therapeutic hemp or the CMS program or low-dose hemp beverages or whatever else uh you want to call hemp. And so we have seen a number of bills drop. Those bills uh in various ways are are are gaining momentum, whether it's the Barr Craig bill or the Van Dyne Landsman bill or the yet-to-be-release bill from ex-house member or senator. And so I think we're gonna just see a lock, a lot of activity when when everyone comes back from recess, and uh it's also the midterms, and so we'll have a whole host of new people being elected. It creates a very kind of dynamic lame duck session in between the beginning of November and the end of the year. And like I said, there has to be a funding bill that passes, or else the government's at threat of being shut down again. So this continuing resolution today would prevent the government from being shut down, which allows everyone to keep their jobs and um yeah, I don't know. It's it's kind of if you're the hemp industry, it's really just you know threading the needle. Like if like this needs to happen in order for something else to happen.

AnnaRae Grabstein 38:51

From hemp brands is that they are looking at this very optimistically, that if this does stay in the continuing resolution, that it's a signal that DC is interested in figuring out a regulatory pathway of some kind. And uh I think that there is a restored energy of hopefulness going on right now. And uh and I yeah, there there remains to be seen a lot of details ahead and playing out those scenarios that we talked about earlier, is I'm sure what what every hemp operator is doing, kind of understanding what the future may or may not look like. And at the same time, I think this is really testing the electorate and if hemp is an issue that is galvanizing voters to support a candidate or not. Uh yeah, you mentioned James Tallerico. There's other prominent politicians in places like Kentucky that are talking about uh only supporting candidates that would support these Kentucky industries like hemp. And uh for years I have felt that cannabis wasn't actually a wedge issue that would sway voters. And I'm starting to see little bits of regional pattern recognition that's showing that in some places maybe it is swaying voters. And depending on if the midterms actually change the makeup of the House or the Senate, it could be a really interesting moment because there'll be a whole bunch of new people in DC. And the hemp industry and the cannabis industry and the alcohol beb industry and everyone that has been lobbying on this issue has put in an enormous amount of work around education to the people that are in DC today.

SPEAKER_01 40:49

Yep.

AnnaRae Grabstein 40:49

And if a whole bunch of new people show up in DC, uh, there's going to be a lot of education to be done to be able to continue the momentum that we're having right now, um, whether it's on the hemp issue or it's on any other legalization or policy issue in front of us. So kind of who gets elected right now is gonna really matter in this next session.

Ben Larson 41:14

Yeah. And I mean, let's be clear, there's it's not just Congress people that are are active in DC. Um, you know, the the the lobbying game is uh a fever pitch right now. And it's not just cannabis folks, it's not just hemp folks that are are spending money. Um, there are other interested parties, and obviously the most obvious one is alcohol, and they are spending. Uh, but that doesn't mean that tobacco is not spending, that farm is not spending, and and all these people want a piece of the industry, right? And so it'll be really interesting to to see where it shakes out, but not just because it's a wedge issue with the voters, but it is a wedge issue for people with deep pockets, and that makes it very prominent in the minds of of the lawmakers.

AnnaRae Grabstein 42:03

I'm excited. I I'm I'm excited about this uncertainty. Who knows what happens next, but uh it seems like I don't know if excited's the one. But uh yeah, I'm on something. I'm on something to just get over the hump and see what see what reality set settles in at some point.

Ben Larson 42:19

Um what I what I would like to see is for the government not to shut down in mid-December, uh, because you know, like I said, there's a whole new host of of Congress people uh being elected uh at the towards the end of the year. And and we just want to make sure that Congress actually wants to be active and and get work done and and not like stall everything out.

AnnaRae Grabstein 42:44

Yeah. And literally, I think what I would like to see is is some sort of regulatory pathway that goes into next year for hemp. And also um at the same time, starting off 2027 with a lot of renewed momentum around legalization measures that can free up opportunity for legal regulated cannabis businesses that exist in a state market right now that don't have the same opportunities that that interstate commerce businesses do. So figuring out interstate commerce, schedule three, all of those things. Uh, everyone, everyone deserves a little best bit less less constraint and a little bit more opportunity. And hemp would like regulation. So let's let's see if they can land them.

Ben Larson 43:32

Indeed. Yeah. Godspeed to everyone putting in the work. Um, yeah.

Thank Yous And How To Support

AnnaRae Grabstein 43:37

By the time this episode comes out, uh the continuing resolution will likely already be voted for and announced. So this is one of those things where the content might be stale by the time the content is.

Ben Larson 43:53

Well, then I'll just go ahead and celebrate the passing of the CR with the hemp language in it.

AnnaRae Grabstein 43:57

Woohoo. Um, I think that's all we got for today, Ben. That is our news roundup today.

Ben Larson 44:07

That was that was solid. There's a fair amount of news. Uh, thank you all for sticking with us. And again, happy September. I am so excited that it's September. It's back back to normal. Did y'all get back from Burning Man? Is that over yet? Uh no, it's happening right now.

AnnaRae Grabstein 44:24

Is it happening right now? Burning Man, yes. Be safe. Um, have fun. Why don't be safe? I take that back. Do the other thing.

Ben Larson 44:32

I'm sure you're totally listening to this when you're out on the playa. All right. Well, we we could at least send thank yous to the people that we know are listening. So thank you to our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer, and of course, our producer, Eric Rossetti. He's right there. He is listening.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

If you enjoyed this episode, please share, like, review, do all the things wherever you listen to your podcast, YouTube, Spotify, Apple, Podcast, wherever it is.

Ben Larson 45:00

Thank you for listening. And as always, folks, stay curious, stay informed, and most importantly, keep your spirits high. Until next time, that's the show.