Welcome And Why This Matters

SPEAKER_04 0:11

Welcome, welcome, welcome. I am Jay Rosenthal. I'm here with Anna Ray Grabstein and Jeremy Burke. This is a joint production called This Week in Cannabis Live between Cultivated, High Spirits, and Cannabis Musings. Although Cannabis Musings and Mark Hauser, he's not here today. But I'm sure he has thoughts about what's going on. And we'll we'll get his thoughts next week. Welcome, Anna Ray and Jeremy. Good morning.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Thank you. Happy Friday.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Happy Friday. I feel like because none of us were actually in the room at the DEA hearings, like, did they really actually happen? And of course they did. Now they are over. And now it's like a waiting game. I know Jeremy, you've been talking to folks that are in the room. I've been talking to folks in the room. Anna Ray, you've been talking to folks in the room. Do we have any idea? No, knowing that no one, not none of the three of us are lawyers. Like, are we going to hear something one day or is it going to be like dragged on forever? Anyone have any

What We Know After The Hearing

SPEAKER_04 1:08

thoughts?

AnnaRae Grabstein 1:09

They did announce there's is a date of August 17th that um additional briefings are due to the judge. Right. Um, so that's something. So I would say that it's going to be a minimum of a month from today before there's any more progress. And then after that, no, we don't know. And that I'm okay with that. Uh these hearings were historic, and some really interesting stuff was set on the record, and it's progress.

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Yeah. And Jeremy, you've written about, and we had on um Natalie Fertig and Gary Kaminsky over time. Yeah. And Mark talking about this too on this show, that it's really about setting a record to file a lawsuit later. Talk a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah, sure. So uh we send Natalie to the courtroom. She's a veteran journalist and knows kind of how these hearings work and how federal agencies work. Uh, one of the things that clued her into that conclusion was the fact that the DEA was really not cross-examining witnesses so much. They had a very particular angle in mind, uh, and they would only ask witnesses like two or three questions max and give back all the time, right? And so um, you know, that's a sign of two things, and this is sort of reporter speculation and not uh actually reported. So take it with a grain of salt, that's a sign of two things. One is that the DEA has a relatively simple job to prove, which is that there is just one medical use of cannabis, and that cannabis has not directly killed anyone. That is enough to get it off schedule three, plus the very fact that the White House, uh Donald Trump himself, wants this, which means um, while it's not a foregone conclusion how the ALJ will rule, it is um a strong suspicion that they will move it to Schedule III relatively soon. Um, whether that's you know after August 17th or before September 17th, you know, we don't know, but it is coming. The second piece of that is, you know, the opposition, those of post-rescheduling, really use the hearing as a way to get on the record for an appeal in federal court all the risks they see with cannabis use, all the downsides to schedule three to set up an appeal of which they are already pursuing. And so uh, you know, it is very likely uh an outcome of this that we do see the LJ rule to schedule three. It's possible Schedule II, he he has that ability to do that. Um, but it's likely we'll see schedule three, and then it is very likely we'll see this tangled up in federal courts for a while, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_04 3:35

That drives with your take as well, Anna Ray. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I guess my question is, and and uh I don't know the answer. Um obviously

Setting Up The Inevitable Lawsuits

SPEAKER_04 3:45

I don't know the answer. Nothing's been more obvious than me not know the answer. But like the lawsuits are coming for sure. Will there be a stay of the ALJ's ruling if it is schedule three, or will there not be a like that is seems to be a big inflection point. The timing, notwithstanding, which could also could drag on a very long time. I mean, the the the the briefs are due, what, August 17th? But like maybe then we know when a ruling is being made and what happens after that. It just seems to me it also bleeds very closely into election season. Um impacts at question mark in some way. Um, I am also uh uh yesterday, and Anna Reddy, I know you watched, I don't know if you watched our webinar yesterday that we did with Moby and Jeremy and his and um Graham Ferrar from um from Glasshouse said he like he has PTSD from um all the things that could have happened in cannabis that haven't. So he's planning on things that have happened, which is schedule three from medical cannabis. Everything else is everything else, which I thought was actually a pretty good take, which leads to my thought that whatever the least expected thing to happen out of this hearing is maybe the thing we should expect. Um uh to be honest. Yeah, what is the least expected thing in the honestly? But it works. No, no, I I would my I would ex the least expected thing from my perspective, even based on what Jeremy said, what you've said, what lawyers said, what the DEA's role in this hearing was, what might happen with lawsuits, that for some time cannabis adult use cannabis remains on schedule one.

SPEAKER_03 5:16

And schedule three is medical cannabis, and everybody deals with that for some time until there's some legislative.

AnnaRae Grabstein 5:23

Well, it's funny that you say that, because going into the hearing, that was what I thought was the most expected outcome because I have spent 20 years being skeptical about policy change as a result of it just not moving. And then once the hearing started, I started to think, oh, actually, the most expected outcome is that this is going to work and that adult use is going to become schedule three. So it's it's been a it's been a moving target the entire time.

SPEAKER_04 5:48

Yeah.

Trump Linked PAC Money Floods In

SPEAKER_04 5:49

And then actually there was a story today, I think it was today that I read in marijuana moment about fund uh PAC funding for Trump-affiliated super PACs, and that there's been millions of dollars from some very big cannabis companies, which is fine. And the way that they have positioned the PAC fundraising, because they quoted some of the fundraising, is that this is a this is done. That's my words, right? Like cannabis reform for cannabis medical research for veterans is done. And now give us money because you know, policy goal achieved. I I am fearful that that is the is the box to be checked, which has been checked and which is not ideal uh for the industry right now. And so if they believe that the policy goal is done, I am fearful that schedule one is where adult use cannabis will be. I don't want that. That's what I'm that's what I'm fearful of.

AnnaRae Grabstein 6:41

Yeah. So so again, you scooped my winner, which is the America First Agricultural Action Pack. Um, and the details on on what's happened is that this is a Trump-linked pack that pocketed $11.5 million from cannabis companies in a single month. And the way that that looks is that two and a half million dollars were deposited from True Leave, Kira Leaf, Verano, and Green Thumb. And then Air and Ascend Wellness also chipped in more like $500,000 and a million dollars each. And uh this is to me uh a signal that it's like a it's a it's a deposit to make sure that it gets done. Uh so I would see this as not a schedule one for medical was enough, but that um let's let's take this to the finish line, please.

SPEAKER_04 7:35

Hold on. Did I please? No, no, that was right. That was me. I messed up. I I I just yes, and uh yeah, kudos to that pack for uh shaking down the industry appropriately. Um, I guess my words. Um and taking advantage of this policy. This is the thing, the policy goal they think they achieved, right? Promise made, promise kept. Um uh I mean I don't wanna whatever the opposite of wish cast is being super pessimistic, but what are some other outcomes that we could envision, Jeremy?

SPEAKER_02 8:13

I mean, yeah, the I was just gonna say, like to your question, Jay, there are a lot of outcomes from this, right? Like cannabis could be schedule three, a court challenge could fail, and this could be wrapped up relatively quickly. That is, you know, rose-colored glasses, best case scenario. Um, the ALJ himself, you know, does the judge does have the power to keep it schedule one or schedule two, right? Like that is within, you know, his remit and the DEA's remit. Ultimately, it flows to the DEA administrator to make the rule, but like those are possible outcomes as well. And so um, you know, we we don't know till we know. I know uh that's the worst thing to say in in cannabis, but it is very true, right? Um this is how the federal sausage is made. Uh, it is an awkward spot the DEA is in, sort of uh arguing against its decades and decades of funded war on drugs uh to say, like, oh whoops, we made a mistake about this particular drug, right? Um and so you know, that does give me a little pessimism, but at the same time, uh, you know, Trump wants this. Uh, you know, the science is pretty clear on why cannabis does not belong in schedule one. And so, you know, the rational view still, I think, is that cannabis does, sorry, recreational cannabis does go to schedule three. It's just gonna be fits and starts to get there. There's gonna be a fight, there's gonna be a court battle, uh, there might be a stay that is a very realistic outcome. Um, but you know, it's my I will kind of you know put it on record that I think it gets there. Uh, it's just gonna take some time.

SPEAKER_04 9:41

Yeah, you're not, you're not, you're not predicting a timeline, you're just betting on Callaus fee that it'll get there.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

It'll get there, yeah. I don't I but I don't know, you know, the odds in Calais fee will give you a timeline and that

Prediction Markets For Rescheduling Odds

SPEAKER_02 9:51

that I don't know yet.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

So unrelated, did you see this Calci story about the um teleprompter operator for the president who has a makeup algebra working on the president's speeches, and he's only made a hundred grand? Like, did you see that? Like, he knows what's in the speech, betting on the speech, and still can't capitalize on it because the president is so radic, which actually fits back to the first point that he thinks he's actually done this job.

AnnaRae Grabstein 10:15

Is is Calci tracking this? And are we tracking what Calci is?

SPEAKER_02 10:19

Uh they are, yeah. They they do have rescheduling odds. Um, I will look it up right now.

AnnaRae Grabstein 10:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

So have that right there. Um let's see.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

Yeah, so uh well you'll you'll know what's gonna happen when if you Oh yeah, I'll tell you right now.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

So before January 20th, 2029 is 75, before 2028 is 67, before 2027 is 24. The before 2028 seems yeah, 24%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Oh wow. So someone, I mean, I mean anyway, when when when the Trump sons and Howard Lutnick sons start betting on this, start putting money on healthy, that's when you know what's gonna happen. If you see those numbers move very quickly one day, know what's either gonna happen or not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

That would be my yeah, yeah. Um, but but look, these prediction markets tend to be pretty correct about things. Um, you know, as much as you don't if you know the business can be a little bit icky, but like uh it they are correct uh most of the time. So, you know, those are good odds to go by.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

Fair enough. Fair enough. Um read read those again, Jared, if you could. 24% 20 Yeah, hold hold on one second.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Um it is so 75% before January 20th, 2029, 67 before 2028, and 24 before 2027. So this year.

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Well, then I also wonder, um, I mean, that that lends itself to um other. Oh, here we go. Can I put this up? Oh, yeah, I'm gonna put this. Hold on, give me a sec. I'll sh I'll just share. I'll share. You didn't share, but uh annotated. Um hold on.

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:05

I'm wondering how much has actually been bet. Can you see on Calchi how much money has been put on this?

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Uh like the volume. It's is that the amount of money that people have put down?

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:16

Because that shows it's $7.1 million.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Where I haven't actually betted.

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:23

Bottom left of the chart. Total volume.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Oh yeah, there it is.

AnnaRae Grabstein 12:31

And and you can bet in 24 and 77 cent increments. So pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Okay, so we're gonna start tracking this. It's gonna be on the top of every newsletter between now and uh January 20th, 2029. Um, but I but I also I mean the other a another thing that happened in this week, which doesn't necessarily fit into what Cal she's talking about, although maybe it does, um, is that Democrats

CAOA Returns And Hemp THC Rules

SPEAKER_04 12:58

in the Senate, I guess. This is the most Chuck Shumer move, so I'm just assuming it's the Senate, introduced what yesterday, something they've introduced many, many times for C-A-O-A. I forget what we're calling it. CAOA, which doesn't have they can't even come up with a good acronym that could make it like CAN something or you know something resolution 420. Yeah, like um uh Jeremy, you just you posted this on our Slack channel.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Give us a little rundown of this and what we're uh Yeah, so so the this uh this act has been introduced by Democrats before Chuck Schumer has led it, you know, more power to Senator Schumer for actually trying to do something on cannabis policy, but you know, event yeah, and eventually we're gonna judge uh the outcome, not the intent. And so with that, we're left a little bit wanting. Um at the same time, you know, one interesting new wrinkle in the bill is a vehicle to set up uh hemp-derived THC regulations rather than a ban. And so this is at least a way for Democrats to show that they're attacking that problem. Um, and I look, like I don't think this act uh fully descheduling cannabis has any room to run in the Senate. Again, I could be wrong. You know, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. Um at the same time, I do think, you know, maybe this is some start of a bipartisan negotiation around uh coming up with hemp drive THC rules, right? Um Montana Senator Tim Tim Sheehe also said the same thing. He said, look, uh to it to a group of hemp farmers and a trade group, said, look, you know, there is some bipartisan effort and push to replace the hemp band with age gating and and you know um traditional beverage regulation and rules. And so um it's certainly possible that uh you know maybe it's a starting point for that. However, the full bill uh has not received uh since it's been introduced multiple times, has never received a full floor vote in the Senate, um, likely won't now, but potentially, you know, the hemp carve out could be interesting.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

That will be interesting to watch, and I'm sure Ben and has lots of things to say about that. Anna Ray, what what are you hearing from your sources on this?

Descheduling Costs Taxes And FDA Oversight

AnnaRae Grabstein 15:04

Yeah, I I don't think that anyone thinks that this bill has much of a chance, but the content of the bill is relevant and important. And this bill uh would require the FDA to finally do its job, it would get um TTB involved in regulation. I think it lays out a forward path that um if true legalization beyond adult use under Schedule Three will ever move forward, if if the descheduling reality that so many people in the industry um say that they want ever comes true, there are elements of this bill that create a skeleton of what would be needed for something like that to happen. And so I think that it's it's an interesting moment when we're having the Schedule III conversations to bring this uh conversation back. And the addition of this hemp language, I agree with you, Jeremy, is is notable in the face of this massive amount of lobbying that's going on in DC right now by the hemp industry to try to get something done before their November 12th ban. And um what I'm seeing when I see this is that this isn't only coming from Republicans. The Democrats now are also saying that something should be done for hemp. And um, and this is a descheduled bill. And I think that you know, this is ultimately what the industry wants and has been asking for. It it adds a lot of complexity as it relates to the way that um social justice and harms of the war on drugs uh should or will be repaired under a bill like this, it creates an entire tax schedule that would be um very intense and challenging, I think, in the face of the state level taxes based on the taxes that are proposed in this bill. They they could vary, but it's anywhere, I think, from like 5% to 25%. And then when you look at what that would mean on top of state taxes that are um at the low end 10%, at the high end 40%. I mean, you could look at at cannabis, yes, being descheduled and being legal, but also being taxed at 70%. Uh so there's there's a lot of complexity when we when we look at the ultimate destination that many people in the industry say that they want and what that would mean in reality, which is lots more taxes, all of a sudden the FDA and TTB are inside your company with you. Um it's there's a there's a lot there's a lot

Canada Proves Legal Does Not Mean Profitable

AnnaRae Grabstein 17:40

here.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

Um it actually factors into something. Jeremy and I held a webinar yesterday with our friends at Moby, uh, and we had Canadian operators, we had Canadian plus international operators, we had Verano, and we had uh Glasshouse. And something that uh Raj Grover from High Tide, which is a cannabis retailer here in Canada, he said something that I think factors in is a you did a good segue, Anna Ray, and you stepped on my segue, even though I stepped on your winner's business. I want to play what Raj said. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Canada's taught us that legalization does not necessarily mean success will automatically happen for companies. And Mike and myself, we've lived through this in Canada. So, you know, everybody got excited and they built a whole bunch of cultivation. There was so much capital that flowed in, and everybody forgot about basics, which was profitability. And when I looked around, a province like Ontario, there's no distance requirements, right? You could open dispensaries across the street, which is literally ridiculous. There's no money to be made there. So we saw that coming early and we wanted to go with the highly differentiated strategies. Six years ago, I started piloting in three different provinces in Canada, what happens if we focus on volumes, drop the margins, because cannabis is commoditized. And I speak about this from personal experience. And so we piloted how we choose real estate, which is an anchored real estate strategy, again, highly differentiated. We piloted, given all the data that we had, 70% of cannabis consumers, even today, care strictly about price as a value proposition. So we chose to go in a totally different direction where everybody else was headed. We knew if we follow the herd, we're going to get slaughtered. Thank God we didn't do that. We launched a discount club model after some very successful pilots that we did for about a year. So we had all the data to prove that. And then today it's become a winning proposition.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

I mean, they made some interesting moves along the way, but his point is well received as part of this conversation is that just because these regulatory things may happen, there may be interesting, interesting, and I'm using that the most broad word, interesting tax structures, more regulations. Business make it harder before it gets easier. They may be more ability to make more profit, but it's going to be more difficult to get profitable. And there may be more competition. Like I think it is a lesson well learned here that just because these things might happen does not mean your shitty business is going to be great.

AnnaRae Grabstein 19:55

Correct. Yeah, correct. I I think that that that broadly, when I think about descheduling and what that could mean for the industry, uh in addition to all of the regulatory and financial uh things that we've just touched on that are in this bill, I do think that it would be a substantive move in the right direction of shutting down the illicit market in a way that has been challenging within the state-by-state model. So that would be that would be something that I would be watching.

Are Operators Ready For Federal Regulation

SPEAKER_04 20:26

One of the things that I just thought about, because I'm a genius. No, uh, is that maybe we need to sort of start thinking about how we say these things, right? Like it's rescheduled, yes, but also federally regulated. Like it is a it's it's two sides of the same corn coin potentially that you know federally it gets uh rescheduled or de scheduled, but rescheduled and then regulated federally, which is uh a burden that I'm not sure lots of companies are ready for, which you sort of reference, and some maybe especially not the adult use ones, um to comply with federal regulations around food and drugs or manufacturing or any of these things. It it it's it's gonna add another layer of regulation that is challenging Anna Ray. You work with more operators. Like, are they ready for that?

AnnaRae Grabstein 21:16

Some some are, absolutely. And uh and I will say when it comes to uh regulatory compliance, I do think that AI has been one of the biggest unlocks uh in in this particular area of business because the ability to generate process documentation, SOPs, and things is so much easier now with AI. And a lot of businesses have been upping their game in a big way. Uh but yeah, there's plenty that aren't ready. But I think that those are the businesses that aren't going to be ready for taxes either, and and that they're probably benefiting from a lot of the immaturity that the market is existing in today. But I I think broadly it will be a good thing. For businesses, for stability, for investors, all of those things. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 22:06

I'm going to start using that term, federally regulated. That is the outcome that everybody's sort of waiting for. It just changes.

AnnaRae Grabstein 22:14

When he shows up is really is really the big question. When the FDA shows up to the table, because the invitation is open today already. And the FDA just cannabis does not fit into what they're used to doing. And they don't know how to handle it.

SPEAKER_04 22:33

Two

Pennsylvania Stalls As Idaho Slams Doors

SPEAKER_04 22:34

other things. One, um, and we don't have to dwell on this, but Pennsylvania again did not put legalization or anything really in their budget. Um, and I know Anna Ray, you hate Governor Shapiro uh for this. You've you've mentioned that before. You've called him a loser. No, he was one of your losers one time. Um it doesn't surprise me. Pennsylvania politics, we're learning more and more about it. It is cutthroat, it is evenly divided as a very purple state. Um I just don't know if that portends to how other Republicans view this outside of Pennsylvania, but it's certainly not in the budget this year again, even though they could certainly use the money, all the states surrounding them are legal. They seem to have a rational sort of approach to most things, but can't get this one off the ground. Any thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah, I I think it's it's uh, you know, the the Democrats have to win back the Pennsylvania state legislature for anything to happen. Um, and until then, it's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. You know, Shapiro is a pretty effective governor by all you know senses, and uh he's he's good at at getting what he wants at the same time. There is just deep Republican obstinence. Um, despite, you know, Donald Trump at the top within state houses, there's just deep, deep obstinence to uh cannabis regulation, and and Pennsylvania is the same. And so they're gonna just keep bumping up against the rock until you know the Democrats take back the House. Now, again, to your point, it's not to say the Democrats are gonna write perfect legislation that makes all these businesses thrive. They're absolutely not gonna do that um based on recent experience, but you know, it's better than the status quo, you know, for every business. And so uh it's an incremental gain that uh you know we're all looking at.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yep.

unknown 24:15

Yeah.

AnnaRae Grabstein 24:16

The H word is extreme. So um sorry to uh Governor Shapiro, but uh here's here's the thing. I actually appreciate this because I believe in accepting reality and not being in denial about something that is not going to happen. And I think that it has been overly optimistic that legalization has ended up in the budget so the over the last few sessions in Pennsylvania and then not gotten over the finish line. So this shows that there is a healthy amount of acceptance of reality that under the current state and current circumstances, this is not moving forward anymore. And that in order for this to move forward, the Democrats need to control um more seats. And if and when that happens, then I think it will be back on the table.

SPEAKER_04 25:07

I like it.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah, it's our

Winners And Losers From The Week

SPEAKER_02 25:09

point.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

It is now time on the program for everybody's favorite segment. That's the intro for winners and losers. Is everybody ready for winners and losers?

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

All right. Uh, Jeremy, you're gonna go first.

SPEAKER_02 25:26

All right, so my winner, um, I I laugh because it's the DEA. Uh, they did the hearing. They they did it. You know, I'm blow to give the DA credit. Uh, they were told to do this hearing, they did the hearing. It is now over. Uh, you know, well, well done, DEA, I guess. I never thought I'd ever say that. Um, at the same time, I I have heard the DEA museum is very cool where they held the hearing. So, you know, someday we'll do a cultivated road trip and go visit that.

SPEAKER_04 25:55

Well, I say we can broadcast from their media room, that would be really something.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

Yeah, I just want the jacket. I just think the jackets are sick, even though I'd probably get eggs thrown at me if I wore it, but it's a cool jacket.

SPEAKER_04 26:06

I think eggs would be the least that happens to you.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

Right. Um, so yeah, I mean, if they look, if they if they pursue cannabis reform, I will I will wear the jacket proudly. Um I will not, actually. No, on second thought. Um my loser this week, and again, this is a very simple loser, is uh Smart Approaches to Marijuana. Um I think, you know, they fought the good fight in the hearing. I think, you know, from all intents and purposes, it did not go very well for them. Um, and I do think that, you know, cannabis policy does need real credible opposition. Like there are risks associated with legalization and and good policy, you know, captures the upsides and minimizes the benefits. And uh that opposition is no longer smart approaches to marijuana. And I think one thing at least I'm I'm a little bit heartened by in the hearing was that um states brought other credible medical professionals who have, you know, much more who may be against cannabis reform, but have much more data-driven, nuanced views. And so um I hope we can have a real discussion with them and not continue to have discussions with organizations like Smart Approaches to Marijuana, which are polemicists disguised as advocacy groups. So that's my loser for the week.

SPEAKER_04 27:26

I like it. Wow, we're gonna clip that. Um, Anna Ray, winners losers.

AnnaRae Grabstein 27:31

Oh, um I'll I'll bring it home to my local hometown of San Francisco for a winner. Um Amsterdam-style cafes that introduce like food, beverage, and music with cannabis are finally going to be allowed here. And this is so many years after legalization. Uh, the Board of Supervisors finally is is allowing this coming together of um hospitality and entertainment with cannabis. And um, that is hopefully a win. A lot of people are saying that um that this will bring some new life into the dispensaries and give them some new revenue streams. But ultimately, I think it's about the culture in San Francisco. You know, people think about Hate Street and the summer of love and Grateful Dead and Janice Joplin and everything that happened here in the 60s and 70s. And so I'm just excited to get to have music and weed all together in one place.

SPEAKER_04 28:29

Um yeah, that seems more likely we could do a show from there than the DEA museum.

AnnaRae Grabstein 28:34

Yeah, totally. Um and and my other winner I mentioned is this pack that has just raked in a whole bunch of cash um in the last month. And um, I think on the other side of that is um is that the losers are are all of these cannabis companies that are just working so hard, but they don't have enough money to be thrown at the government right now, so they just don't have a say in politics.

SPEAKER_04 28:59

That's that's that's Citizens United right there. Um I like it. Uh I have a winner and a loser. My winner is actually the same as last week. Um, and that is uh Melissa Henry from uh Kiva Confections. We had her on this week to talk about her Conan adventure. Um it was a great conversation and like really we got really granular about how she heard it was being talked about, exactly what they did internally, how they actually executed by getting to um uh uh Sona on the show. Um, but it was also interesting because she happens to live right there. Melissa does. So the parking lot where apparently Conan O'Brien's show is where you park, is actually the same parking lot as where her kids go to the dentist. So there was some funny, some funny things happening. So kudos to Melissa and her team uh for that. Uh, I'm gonna redo that winner loser just to be self-promotional about something we actually did on Cultivate. You can watch that, it's got a lot of views, so check out that conversation. My loser is Idaho legislators, which might be a standing loser if that's the case. So there was a petition to legalize cannabis, like a petition signature petition. The signatures did not pass, they were like 12,000 short. And it almost didn't matter because simultaneously the legislature there, I don't even know if there's a Democrat in the legislature in Idaho. I honestly have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Um, passed a passed a law that suggested that only the the legislature can only uh legalize cannabis in any way, anyway, um in any way. So they're the losers. Don't at me, Idaho legislatures on Twitter. I'm sure they watch this religiously.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

So uh that's my loser of the week. Uh my winner of the week is Melissa again, and um, and all of you, you guys are both winners.

AnnaRae Grabstein 30:38

You you're a winner too, Jay. I I was gonna say that actually. Number

Cultivated Community Tease And Wrap

AnnaRae Grabstein 30:44

one.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

No, you weren't.

AnnaRae Grabstein 30:45

You're doing such a good job.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

I will do a tease here for the I don't know, several dozen people watching now, but a couple hundred that will watch along line. Jeremy and I, next week, a little teaser, we're launching what we're calling cultivated community. It'll be very easy to join. It'll be an ongoing feed uh featuring sort of things we find during the day, other conversations we want to have. You'll be able to find it on our website. If you get our newsletter, you'll get prompted to go join it. It'll be super fun. And a Ray, you're gonna get the first invite um uh right after this show. And um, yeah, we will see everybody there. But that's a teaser because it's not officially launched yet. But if you actually go to cultivated.news slash community, you should be able to find it right now. Um, and we will see everybody there. And uh, we'll see everybody next Friday.

AnnaRae Grabstein 31:28

Sweet. So good to see you guys.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Nice to see you. Thank you, everybody.

SPEAKER_02 31:32

That was fun.

SPEAKER_04 31:32

Yeah, it was fun. Find everything we do at cultivated.news. You can find Anna Ray at High Spirits, wherever your podcast. You can also find Jeremy on Twitter, he's great on Twitter. He likes to get in uh quite doesn't exist anymore. Okay, he likes to get in sex fights. Uh so uh you should go check him out there. Come come battle me. Okay.