SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Hey everyone, it's Ben. Just a quick note before we jump in. This episode, episode one hundred eighteen of High Spirits, was recorded live on Tuesday, December 16th, 2026, two days before President Trump held a press conference and signed an executive order directing the Attorney General to expedite the formal rulemaking process to reschedule Mayor 1 from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3 under the Controlled Substances Act. As sometimes happens with live recordings, we ran into some technical issues during the first portion of the stream. It affected the sound quality. Rather than scrap the whole conversation, we decided to bring you the second half of the episode, where the discussion was in full stride and Anna Ray and I were already deep into our thoughts on the year ahead. What's interesting is that even though this was recorded before the executive order, spoiler alert, much of this sentiment still holds. The rescheduling process is far from guaranteed, and there's still plenty of uncertainty about what actually makes it across the finish line. And to make up for the stafu, we'll be back next week, emerging from our holiday hibernation with a 2025 year end part two, where we'll dig into the industry's response and unpack the potential implications of Schedule 3. Thanks for sticking with us, and as always, keep your spirits high. Let's get into it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34

Let's move to our last news story of 2025 on the wrap, which is about the media meltdown.

SPEAKER_00: 1:41

Yeah, we talked about this in Vegas a little bit.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43

Yeah, you know, we've been making content now together for two and a half years. I haven't really ever thought of us as the media.

SPEAKER_00: 1:51

Yeah. Because we're not trying to get paid on it.

unknown: 1:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:55

But, you know, as we've taken this break the last couple of weeks of recording less, um, just for the holidays, just because we needed to refresh after having a big year like everybody else. But I actually have been feeling the weight of the responsibility of like, holy shit, there's a lot of people that tune in to get information. And there's not a lot of places to get information, to have real public discourse, be it opinions or just learning the facts of what's happening on the ground in this space. And um, part of that is that there have been some big casualties. Um, Green Market Report was shut down by Crane Communications in the spring. Um, MJ Biz went through another restructuring, which caused them to eliminate most of their staff reporting. And I saw a uh a post from someone on their team just maybe it was yesterday or the day before, that they're doing this call out for stories and they pay$300, and basically anyone could write a story for$300 and get it on MJ Biz. That is not true investigative journalism. Um, and and aside from that, there was mainstream outlets like Wall Street Journal and Politico, um, LA Times, and they've reassigned their their beat journalists to other beats. Um, and these were people that were doing really great work, like Natalie Furtig and Mona Zhang. So I think that what this means is that there are less people watching. And as things collapse because of terrible policy, or as there are incredible wins, um nobody hears about them. Right. And that does not help us in DC. We need to be getting the story out, and people who work in the space deserve to not be flying blind as they go into 2026.

SPEAKER_00: 3:45

Yeah. I was actually talking to Eric Meth at Surfside about this, about the need to create like media content and make sure that the people in DC are seeing it. Like target, we were talking from a marketing lens almost like targeted uh media efforts. But it's it's the same uh necessity. It's like the just the world needs to know. Like even my own parents were messaging me like weeks after the ban happened, like, oh, is this gonna impact your business? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, a little bit, unfortunately.

unknown: 4:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:22

Um and yeah, it's it's a hundred billion dollar marketplace. Like it deserves it deserves some daylight and some attention.

SPEAKER_01: 4:30

Yeah. And not only that, when we have gotten attention recently in mainstream news sources like the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, often it's been incredibly negative and biased with not full perspectives on kind of the whole story. And so, you know, we're looking at a time that honestly is dangerous because when news is not out there, um, bad things happen because nobody is watching. Yeah. And we've seen tremendous lack of enforcement from regulators in the space, and we are faced with industry players that are committed to compliance, but who are not seeing there be good incentives to follow the rules. Right. Because the people who are breaking the rules don't seem to get caught, they not they're not getting blown up and then local news.

SPEAKER_00: 5:21

Yeah. Well, so I don't want to be all a doomsday about this, but like we were talking before we started recording that like supporting folks like uh Alex Alex Halper and at Weed Week, and obviously we the work that we do with Jeremy and Jay cultivated, like um, but I don't think the outside world are are following those publications, and so what do we do?

SPEAKER_01: 5:48

Like, yeah, well, I think that's a good point. But like, so what I'm gonna do, I am gonna finally pay Alex Halper at WeedWink. You hear that, Alex? Yeah, yes, Alex, I promised by the end of the week I'm finally signing up for a subscription. I can't tell you how many times I've hit the paywall, and I need to stop hitting the paywall. We all deserve to stop hitting the paywall. Alex is doing great work. Yeah, and cannabis musings. Um, I think I'm gonna be subscribing to all of them. And the reality is that even though mainstream media consumers aren't reading Weed Week, when we invest in investigative journalism, like what Alex Halpern is doing, sometimes it gets picked up by mainstream media. Like the LA Times published an expose that Alex did about pesticides, and it was really impactful and it made a huge difference. So we just need to somehow be supporting these journalists and maybe also telling the other more broad media platforms that this is news that you want to hear about. Yeah. I don't know if they'll listen. Um, but I mean, in general, media is struggling. Like we do this just for you guys. Um we're not making money doing this. Uh, in many ways, I think of this as like my philanthropic offering to the cannabis community. Um, because we want to be having conversations that matter, yeah. But not everybody can do that, and people need to get paid. So it's like, yeah, we need to support media. It's it's dangerous for everyone.

SPEAKER_00: 7:28

Yeah. When there is nothing. I get it. It's media. It's hard. You know, it's like we we we experience this pinch not only in media, but you experience it in in the organizations, the nonprofit organizations in the space. We experience it with the the conferences, uh, the lack of sponsorship. Um, things are just tight, and it's because we have a noose around our neck most of the times. And you know, the a little bit of silver lining in in San Francisco, um, they just did a tax uh what do they call it, tax holiday uh for 10 years. Yeah, um, because the state is so poorly run that the city of San Francisco felt so bad that, like, okay, we're not gonna take money from you because the state is sucking is sucking you draw. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 8:12

Yeah, there, but how much coverage has that got? Yeah. So there's there's not enough coverage of the good news because when someone who is trying to figure out cannabis taxes in Missouri gets gets to hear the news about what San Francisco did, then they get that idea. But if they never get the news, then they never get the idea. Um, and everyone just like ends up in their own little silos. So um, for the holidays, please go give money to cannabis media. It matters. We don't even have a way for you to donate to us, but but maybe we will. We're thinking about signing up for a bit of coffee or whatever.

SPEAKER_00: 8:54

Buy more beverages.

SPEAKER_01: 8:55

Buy more beverages. Would you guys would you guys throw us five bucks a month? I don't know. You let us know. Um, it would matter. Well, so it is the end of the year. I think what people want to hear is predictions.

SPEAKER_00: 9:12

Predictions. Are we gonna make some of the wanna go categorically or just kind of like what do we think next year looks like?

SPEAKER_01: 9:19

Take it away.

SPEAKER_00: 9:21

Yeah. I think mine's gonna sound a little negative. We'll call it realist. Um on the schedule three side, I do think schedule three will happen. I think we need as an industry, this is not a prediction, uh, we need to band together and keep pushing like all hell uh to keep that moving towards descheduling. We need a truly like regulated market that we can do exports to other countries, like the whole world is happening around us, and and we're stuck in schedule one purgatory. Um, schedule three, I don't think is going to be all that much better. On the hemp side, I like I said, I'm not super optimistic that we get this extension in the first push here in like January. Um, but that doesn't mean that the fight's over. We saw the Wyden bill surface. I don't know if Wyden's the right champion to get a bill done. There's been this rumored Griffith bill for well over a year now. I do think Griffith has a good chance at gaining consensus. But again, that's gonna take longer than the end of the year. And so if we can get a good bill to get traction middle of the year, and at the same time we're negotiating on the fiscal year 2027 bill, which has to be determined by the end of the year, that we will have reason enough as we approach November to say, hey, let's give it some more time so we can get the Griffith bill in place and put a framework that allows for the form factors of choice uh and potency caps of choice to kind of create a little bit of a of a of a carve out heading into 2027.

SPEAKER_01: 11:12

I think that's an optimistic prediction because that's workable. I think that is a manageable forward path.

SPEAKER_00: 11:18

It is optimistic if you hear a lot of the banter going on in the conversations behind the scenes about what people feel they should be able to get and how much noise that creates in Congress.

SPEAKER_01: 11:30

Well, I I think I'm with you. I think that feels that feels like like where hemp could land for me. I have a hard time making a prediction on that, to be honest. I I was really surprised that the language got slipped into the appropriations bill. I was caught off guard. I think a lot of people were. There were a lot of folks making big plans for 2026. So I think that there are some other predictions, though, that I have that feel more likely. Um and I wonder if this is positive or negative in the eyes of our listeners. But I think that a large alcohol company will acquire an existing THC beverage brand in 2026. At least one. I think even no matter what happens with with the hemp legislation, if there's an extension or not, I I believe that there will be a prominent hemp beverage brand that finds a home inside of an alcohol company.

SPEAKER_00: 12:29

Yeah, I would put that as I mean before November, that that was a very high chance of happening. Um, but I I'll grant you that I think it will probably still happen.

unknown: 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:41

And then on the um also in the kind of the MA world, I think that citing what happened with Airwellness and other companies um throughout 2025, in terms of restructuring and insolvency, I do think that we will see at least two major cannabis companies file for receivership or merge to survive by the end of Q2.

SPEAKER_00: 13:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 13:09

So there's gonna be more of that.

SPEAKER_00: 13:11

I think there's gonna be a lot of that. It'll be interesting to see what happens on the hemp side. There's been actually a fair amount of interesting innovation that has happened throughout the supply chain for hemp over the last several years and some fairly significant companies that have spun up. It's like I don't imagine, I mean, maybe it happens where they just all like disappear and you know who knows what, but maybe there's some opportunities for for consolidation or maybe even crossover uh to happen. Because, you know, like we always say, it's it's it's one plant, right? Like we the the development of cannabinoids and and consistency and bulk supply. Like um, I think there's yeah, there's there's some interesting movement that could happen there as things get tight uh before there's clarity.

SPEAKER_01: 14:00

I don't even know if this counts as a prediction or maybe it's public knowledge, but I think that in 2026 we will see brands that did really well in hemp that did not play in regulated cannabis enter regulated cannabis as well to understand now that like their strategy does need to be in both.

SPEAKER_00: 14:17

And and then also not in willing to not cannabis, like I think some might even cross over maybe into alcohol or maybe into to uh functional, right? I think there's a lot of interesting things. Yeah, I feel like if you're building a brand, like you you have a certain consumer you're trying to serve, maybe they want more than just THC. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_01: 14:38

Um, amazing. Well, and then we talked about doing some fun superlative awards for the end of the year. Superlit. Um you know, these were always really fun. Did you ever get one of these?

SPEAKER_00: 14:51

I don't think I did. Most likely just know that was. I wasn't that I wasn't that cool.

SPEAKER_01: 14:56

Yeah, I got um, I was a camp counselor the summer between high school and college, and all the counselors got little awards at the end of the summer.

SPEAKER_00: 15:08

And I did get best camp counselor one year.

SPEAKER_01: 15:10

Oh, you got best counts camp counselor.

SPEAKER_00: 15:12

I was it's the popular vote, not not voted by the the managers, but voted by the kids.

SPEAKER_01: 15:18

I was voted most likely to be found skinny dipping at the river in my time. Not best counselor. So not sure which one is a cooler award.

SPEAKER_00: 15:33

It's pretty cool. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01: 15:35

Um, so I wanted to give Buzzkiller of the Year to the Congressional Appropriations Committee.

SPEAKER_00: 15:42

That's a good one. Boo. Boo. Boo.

SPEAKER_01: 15:45

Um, spirit animal of 2025 to drum roll, please.

SPEAKER_00: 15:52

Like cockroach. Like cockroach. Cockroach.

SPEAKER_01: 15:55

Um, the industry refuses to die.

SPEAKER_00: 15:58

Just embody the cockroach.

SPEAKER_01: 16:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:00

That is your job.

SPEAKER_01: 16:01

Exactly. And um, I'd say I was torn on this one, but I think gaslighting of the year award goes to rescheduling, yeah, being imminent. Yeah, it's like okay.

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

We spent a whole year of it being imminent.

SPEAKER_01: 16:17

I feel like we've spent three years of it being imminent.

SPEAKER_00: 16:20

It's up there with safe banking.

SPEAKER_01: 16:23

So those are our awards for the end of 2025. Uh it's been a wild ride, I have to say. Like, I've had a lot of fun this year. Um, my business has done great. I've had an opportunity to work with a bunch of incredible businesses and leaders that have really given me a lot of conviction that what we're building is real. Like it keeps getting better, and the challenges keep changing. So the dynamic kind of environment that cannabis holds is like kind of an entrepreneur's dream. It's really fun here. It's messy and sticky, and people have to experiment and do hard stuff all the time, and it crosses over from B to B into consumers. Like there's just so many aspects that keep this industry really exciting and interesting. And and I just I don't see any other way than that continuing next year, um, even though it's still gonna be hard.

unknown: 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:23

I was having uh a debrief with my my team on on the year, and I said, Look, I mean, 11 months of it were really great. It was just uh just the very end of the year. We got thrown a curveball. But what happened in all that greatness was just this realization of like the positive impact that this plant can have on society. We've received so many stories about how people have turned many aspects of their lives around just by having access to the plant.

SPEAKER_01: 17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 17:54

Um, people weaning themselves off of uh off of alcoholism or or drugs or even helping themselves like sleep or or or kind of reduce pain that they're living with. And being able to deliver that and and build through all this chaos, like and have that be the driver. Um, it is incredibly rewarding. And I do go into the next year as I do every year, with kind of just like trying to take a high-level lens of like how far we've come as an industry. And I would say that this has been a net positive year.

SPEAKER_01: 18:33

Yeah, I I totally agree. It's it's funny, you know, within the political context, there's a lot of static around make America great again, and there's a shifting culture. I just I see more American flags on people's hats and t-shirts than I used to. And and even though cannabis isn't always the most well-loved in the policy circles, I do see us building the next great American industry. It's based in agriculture, it's based in manufacturing, it's based in real things that people really care about, and humans' lives and complexity of getting to build new businesses and kind of everything that America is based on.

SPEAKER_00: 19:22

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 19:23

And uh that's good shit.

SPEAKER_00: 19:26

Yeah. I I often reference one of my favorite books, The History of the World in Six Glasses. And in this book, it it talks about like huge cultural shifts and eras that can be defined by the beverage. And so it goes through um spirits, beer, wine, coffee, tea, Coca-Cola. And with each one of these categories, I mean, it's like centuries that it it spans, but it talks about like how entire supply chains, agriculture, like just how people commune and like. Um, the way people think about the world, it's we are building that, we are doing that right now, and it's so exciting to be a part of it and to to feel so confident that that is where we're heading. Um we just have to survive, we have to be a cockroach.

SPEAKER_01: 20:18

Yeah. And and you know, within the the idea of survival, I think that we have spent a lot of of this episode talking about a lot of the things that were hard this year, and and it was hard. Um, but there are also really good cannabis companies out there, and we've had some of some great ones on the show this year, and like shout out to everyone who's been a guest and has come on and so vulnerably kind of shared their truths and their insights. It's mattered and it's interesting. And there's there's a lot more good cannabis companies that are out there that will absolutely survive, that aren't scared of if they're going to go away next year or not, that have tremendous confidence in in what they have going on.

SPEAKER_00: 20:59

And we're gonna throw in million-dollar uh Vegas parties and uh um absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 21:06

So there's there's a lot of bright lights. Um we're gonna have to keep doing hard things. That's just part of it. And um I really am grateful for everybody that's along for the ride with us.

SPEAKER_00: 21:20

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

unknown: 21:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 21:23

All right.

SPEAKER_01: 21:24

I think that's it.