Rama Mayo: 0:00

Rama, if the right people don't step up and take control of cannabis, the wrong people will.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:13

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 101 of High Spirits. I'm Anna Rae Grabstein and it's Tuesday, august 12th 2025. I'm here solo today. Ben is out in the world doing something, but we will see him next week again soon and me I'm having a really good week. You know it's been hot in California and the weather's turned. It's foggy. I've had some really good time to get into my work this week and exercise. I'm feeling good and we've got an incredible guest today. Rama Mayo from Hall of Flowers will be welcoming in just a minute after my news update.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:52

On the news front, it's kind of hard to miss the news that everyone, whether you're on LinkedIn or X, is talking about that President Trump says his administration is looking at reclassification of marijuana, but for many of us, this doesn't really feel like new news We've got. The past administration was also looking at reclassifying and rescheduling specifically. That effort seemed to die with this new administration, but now, with some advocacy and a lot of pushing, people are talking about it again. Trump says quote it's a very complicated subject, noting that he's heard positive things about medical use and bad things about other aspects. So I will say that I'm not holding my breath. There's a lot of people making guesses about how long it will take and how soon we'll hear an announcement, and I think I'm just not going to put my chips on anything at this moment. If you guys have ideas, you let me know, but I don't have any inside information to share. What I will say is that it was pretty wild to watch the cannabis stocks yesterday. Just because of Trump indicating that he'll think about reclassification, we saw massive stock surges Monday. A bunch of even Canadian operators that don't operate in the US, like Tilray, which has some beer and a few things in the US, but almost none Kronos, aurora they saw double digit gains. Msos, which is the ETF that has a lot of US operators in it, gained over 25% and there were some individual US MSOs that I was watching yesterday that saw raises of over 40%. So it was very wild to see how little bits of news can really send the stock market into a crazy direction. With retail investors and cannabis. I hope nobody is losing their asses with these investments, so we'll see what happens on that front. Generally, after these announcements, we've seen stocks go up fast and then come back down just as fast. We'll give it a week, see if they hold One more kind of fun piece of news to share before we go further.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 3:00

No, virgin Atlantic is not serving a THC infused beverage on its flight, but some of us might have gotten tricked by a stunt last week. There is a THC beverage company called Drippy. They sell drinks with 10 milligrams of THC and 10 milligrams of CBN, and they launched a video and put out a fake, forged screenshot of a letter that said it was from Virgin Atlantic CEO, as well as an email that claimed to come from another executive in the airline, announcing a partnership that Virgin Atlantic would soon be selling these drinks next to all of the other alcohol that they would be selling on their menu for guests on their flights. And while the CEO of Drippy quickly explained that it was a stunt and he said that there's no official partnership and we staged the whole thing to make a point. But he also pointed out he says it's wild that you can slam three vodkas on a flight but not sip a federally legal drink designed to help you relax and feel more comfortable.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:04

I don't know. I think that this stunt was pretty good. A bunch of people fell for it, including BevNet, which is a pretty legit trade publication covering the beverage space. So I had a good laugh. Some people don't like jokes like this quite as much, so, anyway, who's got the next good stunt coming up in cannabis right? All right, everybody, let's jump into our guest intro. He's much more interesting than me. Today's guest has spent several decades turning counterculture into true culture launching a high school indie label that signed At the Drive-In and Jimmy Eat World, producing global campaigns for Beats by Dre and Pepsi and ultimately, more recently in 2018, co-founding Hall of Flowers, the cannabis trade show celebrated for high ROI matchmaking, immersive art-driven activations and overall collisions of people who are making things happen, launching brands in the space he shaped music, art, fashion, branding and now one of the most respected events in cannabis, rama Mayo is here. Rama, welcome to High Spirits.

Rama Mayo: 5:11

Cool, thanks for having me. It's mayo technically, but it's okay, don't worry.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:15

Grab the mayo.

Rama Mayo: 5:17

Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. Thanks for having me. That was a nice intro.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:20

It's like makes me seem like I did a lot, maybe a lot cooler than I am, maybe yeah, you know, I got to meet you last week for the first time and and I hung up after our intro call and thought, god, this guy's got some rick rubin energy. Um, and I don't know if it's just the beard for those, uh, for those that aren't watching, but I think that the music industry and, and the and the southern california too, got me thinking about Rick Rubin a little bit.

Rama Mayo: 5:49

Sure, yeah, rick, actually I was working with a band called the International Noise Conspiracy and it was an offshoot of a band called Refused.

Rama Mayo: 6:00

That was a really big band that kind of broke up early but then became super iconic and the singer and guitar player started another band called International Noise Conspiracy and I put out their first record in America and Rick Rubin then signed them from my label to his label, american Recordings, at the time and I was at SIR Studios in Hollywood, which is like the, where the bands rent to like go if they're going on tour, they rent these like production things or they go record albums there or, like you know, like whatever demo music, really famous SIR and uh, and I was there with a man called say anything that I was also working on a record with, and I saw Dennis from international noise conspiracy and refused in the hallway and he's like Rama, we're in with Rick, you want to come meet him?

Rama Mayo: 6:47

And I was just like holy shit, icon, of course, same, you know, we both started our labels in the dorm room kind of thing, right. So got to meet Rick and he was as cool as everyone thinks that he is and he's always been, and he had like a lounge chair that they brought in like his own Chase Lounge. That was just like Rick's lounge. He had him at all his places, I guess you know, and he was just sitting there like stroking his beard listening to the music, like lying down with his glasses on. It was fucking awesome.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 7:13

That's so cool, I'll take it. I'll take it Amazing. Well, let's just jump in. Let's start with Hall of Flowers. What was the spark that made you think we need an event like this in cannabis, and how'd you bring it to life?

Rama Mayo: 7:23

Yeah, so I did the punk rock record label and then after that I actually started a little fashion trade show and you know, and fashion trade shows have existed for a hundred years, you know.

Rama Mayo: 7:32

So my shows were like these little satellite shows around the bigger shows and I ended up meeting some other people that had much bigger and better trade shows in the fashion world along the way and kind of working with them on different projects along the way.

Rama Mayo: 7:46

And when I got into cannabis, the clients essentially the clients that I had at the agency at Green Street needed a show, you needed places to go to, so we'd go to these different shows and nothing was like on the level of the B2B side, you know, consumer side. There was awesome stuff, you know, but the B2B side just really was kind of lacking. So I just took what I learned in the fashion trade show world and went to my some friends in the fashion trade show world and really begged them for years to start Hall of Flowers and finally they did and the timing was right with it. You know, maybe we would have launched it too early potentially if I had done it right when I was trying to do it. You know it took a couple of years to even get it to come to fruition.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 8:29

When was the first one?

Rama Mayo: 8:31

The first one was 2017, maybe or something Okay, something like that. I think COVID blurred my brain with the dates. Everything's a blur now still, but it really took my finding my partner, danny like really runs the trade show, the CEO company, and he was the CFO at other big fashion trade shows for years. You know it really took him to come in and execute. You know, like, I'm an idea guy and I know that execution is everything. You know it took me a long time to like, realize that and even longer to admit it. You know, but now I realize that you know, to admit it. You know, uh, but now I realize that you know, ideas are are, you know, maybe not worth that as much as I thought they used to be. You know it's all about execution.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 9:12

That's an interesting point. Well, so for for those people who maybe have been under a rock in the cannabis space, um, how tell us a little bit about Hall of Flowers, where, where it's been and where it's going?

Rama Mayo: 9:26

Sure, yeah, I mean really it's there to solve a problem, right, and that problem, you know, years ago was wholesale, you know, sales to stores from brands. So that's where it was. That was the focus. That's really still. The focus now is just really connecting buyers and brands together, you know.

Rama Mayo: 9:50

But we did it in a cool way and we incorporated the culture and a lot of the thought leaders as part of it and it just became something much bigger than than that, you know. It became more of this destination family reunion, you know, kind of you know, but that's really what it does, you know, but it's it's become like the, the meetup that you know, the semiannual meetup for the industry, essentially in California. And then we expanded into Toronto a few years ago and the whole kind of point of that was really to set up being used to people seeing it on the East Coast in general. We kind of knew that our hunch was that we would eventually maybe move it from Toronto down to New York, which is what we just did, and that first show will happen this October.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 10:29

Nice, and when you are thinking about your background in music and art, I'm wondering how that is shaping the experience is for people who are coming to Hall of Flowers.

Rama Mayo: 10:41

Yeah, I'd say it. I mean a ton, even if they don't know it. You know, like we had actually a lighter right here, like this lighter, this little logo here, hall of Flowers. You know this is something we did with an artist named Alvaro Ilzarbe. That's a Peruvian artist that you know did all the decor of one of the shows. We worked with an artist named Cody Hudson and did another, you know, full kind of takeover of the branding and everything for the show. So I owned an art gallery for years. I'm like an art collector. I make art not good stuff necessarily, not something that people are buying, but I love making art and so art has a huge anchor as part of the show, I'd say. And then I have a background in music. So you know we naturally wanted to work with different musicians and stuff like this along the way, and a lot of the musicians also have cannabis projects, so they want to be involved in Hall of Flowers.

Rama Mayo: 11:38

you know also some of the other you know, actors and celebrities and comedians that have kind of cannabis interest all really end up coming to Hall of Flowers and really want to work with us on ideas or projects or stuff like that. So we're really fortunate to get a lot of inbound interest, you know.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 11:54

Cool? Well you have. You've got this really great background in brands and you've worked with some of the biggest and really most iconic cultural brands out there. Like I think about Beats by Dre I'm wearing the headphones right now Pepsi.

Rama Mayo: 12:09

There, you go.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 12:10

Yeah, I'd love to just talk about this concept of cannabis branding right now and what you think about it. What is happening in the market with cannabis brands?

Rama Mayo: 12:22

I think there's a lot of products right, not necessarily a lot of brands, you know, and I think that those products will develop and these companies will develop into brands. I think about it tons of ways. There's so many different pieces of it, you know. So I think there's people that are doing branding super well and they have not great products. I think vice versa. Bezos says something like you know, your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room or whatever. You know. That's like his quote and that's kind of what I think about when you ask the question. And then I just start thinking about, like you know, like a rifling through of all these different companies and brands that are in my head. But yeah, maybe what about cannabis branding? Let's get more specific.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 13:07

Yeah, let's dive in a lot deeper. So I think cannabis is interesting in that we are restricted into the state-by-state supply chain model and that means that there are restrictions on scale in some ways and that the supply has to come from the market. But now we're starting to see that there's brands that are traversing these state lines but still having to solve unique supply chain problems in each market, and so it becomes challenging to really envision a brand scaling, because you can't always make the same products in every market and the consistency for the consumer isn't always the same. So, yeah, I guess they're different businesses, but trying, but trying to show up for the consumer in the same way. Just wondering if you think that anybody really has a brand in cannabis yet and and if if anybody's really got that consumer loyalty that that truly ingrained cultural brands will have yeah.

Rama Mayo: 14:09

So first part are there brands? Short answer is yes, I'll come back to it. It's long question. Others, brand loyalty? I don't think so.

Rama Mayo: 14:16

I think brand loyalty is passed down generation to generation, really, or? Or you know, it's like my mom drank this alcohol or my uncle smoked this cigarette or whatever the heck. You know what I mean. So I just think that there hasn't really been that and I think right now the way to prove that would be like if you went into a dispensary and you asked for a product from a name brand or a marquee brand and they didn't have it, are you going to leave and go get a different product? Probably not. You're probably going to be like okay, well, what's close? You know, and maybe you'll try it and maybe you'll go back to the other one, whatever, but you know you're not going to like walk out of the bar because they don't have a certain beer you like. Or you know you're not going to walk out of the dispensary, necessarily, you know. So that's my thought on brand loyalty.

Rama Mayo: 15:03

As far as the brand, yeah, I mean it is very hard because every single state it's essentially a different business for these companies. You know, whatever, you know we'll leave names out of it, but there's brands that are in a lot of states and it's a whole different business, literally. You know, different company, different everything, different regulations, all that kind of stuff, everything, different regulations, all that kind of stuff. But you know, I remember when I would go to like on tour with the bands and we'd be in Utah and we'd go to like get a beer and the beer was like half the alcohol volume but it still looked just like the Corona, like you couldn't really tell the difference, you know, or anything like that. Even the taste was the same. So I think eventually it will get there, but for now, I'm sure that that brands have like different top selling SKUs in every market they're in. You know, I'll bet you it's like a different whole, different product. Even even I know brands that have completely different product offerings because you know it's California wants one thing and you know Florida wants something different, you know. So there's a lot of people that are also doing it right.

Rama Mayo: 16:03

But, like you mentioned the, the, the, the split of the manufacturing, you know the problem there. The real problem is the marketing, the social. How do you build a brand when your Instagram gets taken out every fucking day. You know what I mean. So even LinkedIn, I know they're being a lot nicer, but they're still not perfect, and X or Twitter seems to let you do whatever you want, but that's a pretty toxic environment in general. I don't know if people really want to play in there too much, and I think that's the problem is that you can't really stay in front of the consumer's mind without being able to make content and build brand stuff.

Rama Mayo: 16:41

Also, brands are so different these days. Look at brands are now built basically like the complete opposite way they used to be built right Before. They were built like from the retail level up. Now you're seeing like a poppy or whatever, building from like the social world into retail secondary. You know that's never really happened before. You know maybe some circumstances, but it's a different world altogether. Final part I'll say is retail is around the board in every industry, really fucking hard right. So like, if you're a retailer, you're nervous right now and regardless of whatever you're selling, you know. So I'd say that doesn't help. Brands exist because you know if the retailer is kind of nervous and the brand doesn't really know what they're doing, too much the company they're trying to figure it out. Still, it's like, not like the best place to. You know how do you launch a 20-year company if the business is all working on it?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 17:34

I've only been around for six months, or whatever you know sure, how do you think about cannabis brands and the right product mix that doesn't dilute the brand promise? We see we see cannabis companies take different approaches. Some will create a portfolio of brands because they have manufacturing capacity to do everything under the sun, and so they'll have a separate edible brand from a flower brand. And then we also see cannabis brands that will take one flagship brand and launch every different product category under that brand. Do you think that there's one right way or one wrong way to do it?

Rama Mayo: 18:10

No, I think you could do both for sure. Obviously, like Procter Gamble model is the first thing you mentioned, right, where it's like they own all the candy or Kraft is one of my favorites, actually, to be honest. Like, I'm sorry, mars, I apologize, you know these are all the same terrible, ruthless companies, you know. But, like you know, mars owns like every piece of sugar on the shelf or whatever, right you know. So I'd say, like that's, like that's the big goal, right, 30 years from now, it makes sense to have this big, wide portfolio. You know, 10, 20 years from now kind of thing, of course.

Rama Mayo: 18:40

But I do think and I don't know who's proven it yet, and I'm sure some people have, and let's put some stuff in the comments if anyone's listening but like I do believe my partner, gary vaynerchuk, uses the word permission a lot like if you do something really good, you have, if you make an amazing hat, you have the permission to make a jacket or whatever, right you know. So I do think that there's brands that could have product offering across the board, and I've argued with with ex-clients in the past where I was like they want to launch a, a vape roll, vape thing from their pre-roll and I'm like you should call it the same thing. And they're like no, no, we don't, we make pre-rolls. And it's like but you really make cannabis products right. You're like what I don't, you know what I mean like I think you're too stuck in, like the way the big companies did it.

Rama Mayo: 19:27

So yeah, because again, back to trust and back to the brand loyalty and stuff. You know, do you want to introduce? You want to introduce a new company, another new company?

Rama Mayo: 19:36

yeah like it's a lot so much work it's so much work for sure.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 19:41

you've talked about there being a tension between the money people and the cannabis people and that that dynamic has been shifting recently, in the more recent history of cannabis industry. What do you mean by that? What are, who are the money people and who are the cannabis people?

Rama Mayo: 19:58

Yeah, yeah, I think there's a lack of respect between the money people and the cannabis operators. That's really what I think it is. You know, and I've been in so many meetings where you know the money people say, well, how hard can it be? My cousin grows tomatoes, you know. And then the money people, or then the cannabis people, are like fuck those, you know suits, whatever, like I have, I'll go dig up a barrel of money or whatever from my backyard, you know, kind of thing. So I think that's how it's been, at least the past 15 years that I've been involved in the industry, you know. But I do believe that that's changing.

Rama Mayo: 20:30

I believe like the next wave is coming. You know you mentioned, on your news thing, the potential rescheduling from from Washington DC. I think you're going to see the next wave of of hopefully the respect is there on both sides and there's experts on both sides, you know, because, like running a business is so hard, like actually running the business, you know, like, like that's what I when I talk about danny or my partner, hall flowers, like you know he runs, like the business side of the business is what I say, which is people like what do you mean? That's like everything and I'm like, yeah, it's fucking, yes, it is everything, you know I mean, because the is is a different expertise. You know what I mean, Honestly.

Rama Mayo: 21:09

But a lot of the cultivators, the, the, the operators, you know they don't have like the most amazing business skills necessarily, you know. So they don't. That's how I was when I started the punk label. You could get loans and, you know, sell equity and you know, raise money. I, you know you had no idea how to do that stuff, so I just like knew how to make records, you know. So I kind of feel like that's what's going on with the, that's what's been going on with cannabis, and I'm hoping that finally people will find partners before it's too late, because you know they're everyone's in the money, People are not investing as much and the brands are hurting, you know. So that that's.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 21:48

That's what I think is different is. I think that there's there's a lot less money and the people that have stuck around are the ones that are resolutely committed to the plant, like they're holding on to the soul of cannabis and and the money, the money. People realize how much they need those people. Otherwise all the money is gone because somebody's got to take care of the plants and and take care of that manufacturing.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 22:09

And it's, it's, it's not simple, and when they've, they've thought that it was simple and they tried to do it themselves. Those people are not here anymore.

Rama Mayo: 22:18

Yeah, I think there's also like the idea of, like I'm a lifer in the space, I I pay two bucks an hour or whatever. You know what I mean. Like this isn't like a money thing, right, you know, and but I believe that we'll be in a great position. You know, in years and years and years from now. You know. Again back to my music world. That's how it was. I made no money for 10 years.

Rama Mayo: 22:38

You know, I think that there's a big difference between those people that are in the industry versus, like, the people that leave the music industry or the energy drink industry or fashion industry to get into cannabis and they want the salary and they think it's going to be like easy and all this stuff. And then when they get in, they realize, holy shit, like this is I. I brought somebody in from from alcohol into cannabis. He lasted maybe three months before he was just like he quit, he gave up. He was like this is so hard. Oh my god, like I had no idea how crazy this was, because you know it's just every day I know you wanted short sound bites every day in cannabis is like the walking dead, okay, and what I mean by that is you kick open the door, bang and oh my god, there's new zombies in new places every day. So every day you have to put out some new fire or there's a new type of zombie.

Rama Mayo: 23:29

So that you the plans doesn't matter, doesn't matter how good your plan is, because it's changing every single day. You know, so, you need so. If you don't have a plan that you can stick to every day which a lot of people don't and then you don't have like a true long-term vision, a true like north star, like that you're following, die hard forever, then how, how easy is it to get lost? You don't know where you're going and you don't know what you can do now. It's a very hard approach. So I think people like you or I, or people that are in the space, like lifers, that are dedicated, we're like oh, whatever, it's a 10-year plan, 20-year plan, versus like what am I going to do this week?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 24:06

Yeah, there's so much in what you just said that resonates with me and and speaks to the type of way that I move through cannabis and and I I think that it's it's two part. It has to do with the way that we show up for ourselves as leaders and also the way that we create vision and intention in companies and how that's communicated to the people who work in those companies so that then they can understand what piece they play in creating that vision. And so I think of it as, like there's foundational stuff that's just part of building a company, building a brand. If you don't have that vision and that mission and that clarity, then everything that you're going to build on top of it is going to get blown over in the hurricane 100%, yeah. And then, on the leadership side, it's about connecting with that, and so you've talked about bringing people in.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 24:56

You've talked about people that have mentored and been partners to you. I would love to dive into that a little bit deeper. Learn first of all, about the way that you see mentorship and leadership in cannabis, and if you have any stories of of being mentored yourself or mentoring others. I think it would be really great to hear sure, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rama Mayo: 25:16

And then, just before that, you know you, you, I certainly say it this way what you just said, it, you know mission, vision values, and that's what a brand needs, right. So back to the very first question. If you took all 200, 300, 400 of the best cannabis you know, putting numbers on the board brands out there right now and you ask them their mission and vision values, what's the percentage that actually know it? Probably five or 10% of those companies actually have that figured out. Honestly. Yeah, you know what I mean. So that, to me, that's the thing, and I talk about it all the time, literally. I don't even work with clients anymore because they don't want to take the time to build that foundation in order to build the hundred story building on top of it. They don't even care. We'll get back to mission, vision values. Can you work on the products? And it's like no, what do you know? Can you give us a logo and it's like no, I can't without knowing what you stand for. What are you talking about? You know what I mean.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 26:07

So, anyway, but people, don't want to put the work. What's wild is that you say that as a marketer and as a person creating brands and I work on corporate and commercial strategy and I say the same thing. It's like how can I help you grow your business, how can I help you improve your bottom line, if we don't understand what your foundational mission and purpose and vision is? And so, yeah, it's so critically important and there's no way that the humans inside the company can have success without that foundational infrastructure. I can't agree.

Rama Mayo: 26:38

What are you getting out of bed every day to do? You don't know. And everyone's on the same, everyone on different pages and anyway, okay, so it's on the throat there. Now you're talking about mentors.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 26:47

Mentors.

Rama Mayo: 26:49

So, anyway, okay, so it's on the throat there. Now you're talking about mentors, mentor. So mentors is a huge thing for me, huge, huge, triple, huge. Because, um, I, I grew up single mom. You know, I've never met my dad. My mentors were like my neighbors and then soon after, like the people I started working with, the band members and the stuff they were like a little older than me that I'd put out their records or you know, and back then, four years was a lot, you know what I mean. From high school to college it's like, oh, my god, you're an adult, you know. So, uh, so I've had a lot of amazing mentors and, um, you know, I'd say like the biggest mentors in cannabis for me are probably shep gordon, who we had speak at hall flowers one year sh Supermensch, incredible documentary film about Shep.

Rama Mayo: 27:32

He was kind of like the most iconic music manager of all time one of them and then ended up managing and creating the idea of the Celebrity Chef and then went on to create a ton of other amazing products and brands and all this stuff. I was staying with him at his house on whole in on maui and in hawaii and he was, uh, he got a check when I was there for like uh, the bam spices like emeralds, you know bam, and you throw the spice in the thing like he. He's like been getting paid for that for 25 years. You know what I mean. So he also made movies. The first movie he ever made won best picture, won academy award for best picture, kiss of the spider woman. Went on to make they live, which was like an amazing movie for me growing up and all these crazy movies. So chef was an amazing mentor full open book, gave you tons of advice, anything you asked for, he'd help with connections, whatever. But the main thing that he told me that really went to my brain was Rama. If the right people don't step up and take control of cannabis, the wrong people will. And so I was like fuck. So it gave me the confidence to get in and really be like a thought leader in the space and try to like be up there.

Rama Mayo: 28:45

Amongst the other, you know corporates or whatever you want to call them, you know. So Shep was a huge mentor. Another big mentor is Craig Fox. I mentioned his name to you earlier. You know, craig, I call him my Yoda, I call him my Yoda and he, you know, was from Live Nation and then iHeartRadio and then Dick Clark Productions and then Grateful Dead and you know all this stuff here. So he's been the same way you know.

Rama Mayo: 29:11

But I think like, if you're like a really successful in business, like you know, retired forever, your family will never have to work again, type of person, and you meet someone like me that just like, loves work and loves business and is inquisitive and wants to learn and know, and just like you know, I want to be their grasshopper style. You know I want to be their, their intern or whatever you know. So I think I think people like that you know what I mean I think I think business people like the interest and they want to share and stuff like that. So I'd say those are some of my, like my two biggest mentors in cannabis. Oh then Gary V I mean fucking Jesus, I mean Gary's my partner, but he, oh my God, it's like 10 out of 10, human, 11 out of 10, if you could do it Like I don't give anyone a perfect score except for Gary Gary's been so unbelievable to us, such an unbelievable mentor, you know, and and since we're in business together, it's not just like basic ideas, it's like you know he gives me stuff and I execute and report back. You know what I mean. So it's it's partnership, but it really is mentorship, you know.

Rama Mayo: 30:17

The final one that pops in my brain I'd say is Darren Romanelli.

Rama Mayo: 30:20

He's who I started Green Street with, originally Dr Romanelli, and he's an incredible designer, artist, unbelievable guy, hilarious, super cool, and he was the one that was like I had a couple of clients in San Francisco when I lived there very cold I know, you live in the Bay Area, I lived there for three cold years and I had a little agency in San Francisco with my friend, john LaCroix and I wanted to get back to LA and I talked to Darren and he had his little agency going and working with big clients. That's where I get to work with. Beats by Dre and Pepsi and all these companies is through Darren's company and you know that's where, also where we started Green Street together, you know. So we did the G-Pen brand at Green Street Sorry, at Street Virus, which is where Darren's company and we were doing Beats, disney, dreamworks, g-pen, and then that's what kind of spun off and had us start a cannabis agency. You know, is that? So those would be like my biggest mentors, I'd say.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 31:19

Well then, flip it around. How about mentoring the next generation?

Rama Mayo: 31:23

Yeah, Even to be called a mentor. It makes me like blush, you know what I mean. So I would love to help people. I don't know if I'm a mentor with some of these people because I don't know if I'm sure people may look at me in that sense because I help tons of people just just for the love or just because you know. But I don't feel like I'm like I don't have like a weekly or ongoing check-in with people. That you know what I mean. Like I'm not like a scheduled mentor. You know if you will, but I talked about my punk label back in the day and I was talking to the owner of this company called Iodine Records, who I actually started working with.

Rama Mayo: 31:56

He started reissuing my old records from 30 years ago, which started re-reissuing my old records from 30 years ago just crazy. And. But when I spoke to him uh, you know, recently I hadn't talked to him in 20 years he was like rama, like I came to your record label, you sat me down, you gave me all the answers to the test, you gave me everyone's phone numbers. You told me what to avoid. You told me how to do it. He's like you taught me how to like get a record label started and now he has like a very, very successful business. Now he's doing a deal with me and putting out my music. You know what I mean. So that's like I'd say like he would consider me a mentor back then because I really helped him. Today I don't think I can even say who would consider me a mentor. It's so weird, it's like too weird of a brag I don't know me a mentor.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:40

it's so weird, it's like too weird of a brag yeah yeah, I get that for sure.

Rama Mayo: 32:41

No, but I but anyone listening like I love I get emails, not all the time, but every week I'll get an email. That's like it's set. You say that you want to talk to people. I'm just reaching out with this weird thing and I'm like fucking let's go. You know what I mean. I got an email the other day from a guy that wanted to do like dungeons and dragons and cannabis and cannabis and I was like absolutely yes, like own it, be the person that that is like the expert in this. Go, go, go. Like why wait, you know? But again, like I think any advice I would give to people like that is probably like a mix from what Gary would give me or any other. You know, it's like nothing new from my brain, necessarily.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 33:18

Well, I think we all lean on our mentors a lot when we're growing and expanding our businesses, if we're lucky enough to have them. And you've taken this vision of Hall of Flowers you created in California, you took it to Toronto and now you're launching in New York and I'm curious about how hard that's been, how easy it's been. Kind of what like taking something to New York is its own animal right.

Rama Mayo: 33:45

It's not the same. Yeah, yes, correct, I would say not easy. So you know very hard, yeah, very hard.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 33:53

Tell us, from your perspective, what are some of the differences. What is the difference between the East coast and West coast cannabis that you are rubbing up against right now?

Rama Mayo: 34:01

You know, I don't think there's the difference isn't really cannabis, it's just business, right, like we have a union facility in New York, because they're all union facilities basically you know where in Santa Rosa and Ventura they're not. So that's a big difference for our exhibitors. You can't carry, you got to carry shit in, you can't draw whatever right. You know it's like union facilities, a lot more fees, essentially right. You know we're dealing with the city, new york, which sees a million events a year. So our economic impact in santa rosa and ventura is like maybe like five million bucks or something like that. You know that we bring to the city, which is a lot of money. New york's like what, who gives a shit about that? Like we do that every second. You know what I mean. So they don't, they're not like oh my god, yes, please come in.

Rama Mayo: 34:46

You know, when we did the shows out in the palm springs area, they were like the mayor would come to the event and walk around take his photo with everybody because they were so excited. You know we were there kind of thing, right, you know. So I'd say the just the differences. Now the good news is my partner, danny, mostly did shows in new york. You know he, he did shows where we're doing our show that 12 years ago or whatever it was 15 years ago or whatever it was. You know so he's been doing trade shows, fashion trade, big fashion trade shows in new york for for 15 years. You know. So we have that. That's like really our, our, the only way we'd be able to do it. I personally would never go into New York myself and try to navigate because it's just too difficult. But since he has the friends and past, history and infrastructure in the past, you know it's some of the same people he's like talking to the same people he used to talk to and they still do the same job, you know so, um, or the the boss now, or whatever. So, um, yeah, so I'd say that.

Rama Mayo: 35:44

But you know it's, it's uh, it's like a time machine, right, like it's it's six years ago in California, seven years ago in California, right. So it's like it's everyone's super excited. You know everyone is like the energy is just unbelievable. Everyone's down to try stuff out and experiment because you know they don't, they haven't done it yet, they're they're going through it for the first time.

Rama Mayo: 36:08

Most of the brands and the retailers, you know it's the first time they've been doing this. So. So that's the good news. The bad news is it's also the first time they've been doing this Right. So they might not know, like this is how it works or this is, you know, like, if you think of a retailer in California that's been doing it for whatever, seven, eight, ten years more, some of them, you know they just are going to just know more Right Versus, you know, the ones in New York. So so I'd say that's the difference. But the excitement, enthusiasm is unbelievable. And when we call retailers up and invite them to Hall of Flowers, they're like fucking, yes, let's go. A lot of them have heard about it, some of them have attended, but it's built for them. You know what I mean. So that's really the focus. As long as we can get them there, then you know everything else kind of happens.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 36:53

Do you have any special surprises that you're planning for New York that you can share with our audience?

Rama Mayo: 37:02

Well, they wouldn't be a surprise if I did it. But you know, um, these aren't necessarily maybe surprises. The last one potentially is. But, uh, you know, but we haven't really announced this yet. But we are doing, um, this thing called bud tender blitz, which on day two will invite out you know, a thousand ish bud tenders. I don't know how many will end up coming, but you know we'll invite out all of them basically to kind of come on day two. Educational stuff. Some brands are going to work on some exclusive kind of special offerings for them.

Rama Mayo: 37:26

We're trying it in Santa Rosa for the first time this year we have Access which is like our like executive lounge kind of space. So HPI Canna, which is like one of the biggest operators in new york, they have like a space and access versus a booth, you know, and it's like more private. They don't have to build a whole big installation but they can still have their meetings and stuff. So access is new. It's a kind of a brain child of my partner, danny. Um, he his vision, is it? It kind of becomes like our soho house kind of feel. Eventually we're far away from that that, but that's like the idea. And then we have some after parties. We're working on One of them would be really awesome. We're working on nailing it. I'm hoping to get it kind of done this week, which we'll announce soon if we do it. But we have parties all around the city. We're doing a few different events for like the different vibes people want to kind of create to keep the trade show kind of the business conversations going.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 38:25

Cool and you guys have done a very intentional job of the way that you've curated attendance at these events. Yeah, I remember at the very beginning like you wouldn't let anybody but brands exhibit at all, like now. I do see some digital platforms and POS companies, but it's still it's not open to anybody to be able to to exhibit, and then it's also not open to anybody to be able to attend. And, uh, I'd love to to hear more about those intentional choices and why you made them.

Rama Mayo: 39:02

Yeah, I mean every other show in, not just cannabis, but in every industry. Basically, you know most of the trade shows. If your check clears, you get in the show. That's. That's the application process, right, you know.

Rama Mayo: 39:14

So my partner, nanny, comes from the fashion world and it was very, very, very curated. I actually even tried to attend. They had two trade shows side by side, same parent co, but different consumers. One was more streetwear, one was more high-end. I was working with the streetwear one and there's a door to connecting the two things and I try to walk through to Danny's show, the high-end one. They're like, no, you can't come in. And I'm like, no, you can't come in. And I'm like, no, do you know who I am? I'm like you know, and I couldn't get into Danny's show and I was so upset and then I was like what the fuck? And then I talked to him years later about it, before we started Hall of Flowers. But why, why? And he's like you fuck up the numbers, I don't. Why would I want you in the show so you can go bug people about getting business from them or asking them for money?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 40:04

He's like no, no, I want only credited buyers.

Rama Mayo: 40:07

You know, in these shows Because that's the whole point is the brands have to write orders and make money. They need to make, you know, it needs to be worth it to them. So, from going into it, danny was ridiculously strict with the guests. Even was ridiculously strict with the guests. Even myself I'm not even exaggerating even starting the show In the beginning, I still had to give Danny my guest list and he still wanted to look at every single person was on there and we'd look at their LinkedIn and justify, like why they should get to come to the show. It was wild. So, but you know him being super strict, especially on the exhibitor side, is probably why we're at where we're at.

Rama Mayo: 40:44

You know we we've turned down hundreds, hundreds of companies, hundreds of companies to do the show. You know and cause. One thing is a big thing also is we don't want them to do the show and it's not worth it for them. We don't want them to buy a booth and not want to come back. So we know if someone's not going to connect or do well, we won't even sell them. You know we have a, a, a brand called Xylem. That's like a um, uh, uh, automation company, brilliant, brilliant company, brilliant guys, and, um, the one team that works there, and uh, and they've been trying to do the show for years and Danny kept saying no, no, no, no, no, cause he just didn't understand why they would want to be in the show. And then this guy tracked Danny down, I believe, at the airport, and like harassed Danny into, like making him allowed you know him to be in the show, and it was like a whole big deal.

Rama Mayo: 41:35

You know what I mean. Any other company would be like you want to pay 20 grand or whatever it is. You know more, of course, who's turning that person down, you know, um. But then when you go to some of these other shows and you see, like the snowblower booth or whatever, or like the tile floor tile guy, or like the, you know these weird spaces, you know just like what's the? You know it's like everyone's just walking right past them. Like you know it's, it doesn't really give much value, except for the bottom line of the revenue of the show, which my partner, danny, again brilliant man, he'd rather we have barely only a few boosts left for Santa Rosa and he was like, well, I'd rather get the right brands in than sell them to people at higher prices. You know what I mean. So it's all like just set up, set up, set up for the next one, the next one, the next one. Again. He's done it for so long that he's thinking multiple shows ahead.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 42:28

Yeah Well, and thinking about the difference between what you're doing in California versus what you're launching in New York, it occurs to me that there's some kind of mature market versus emerging market dynamics, and that you've had an opportunity to, to witness, or to even to make certain insights into what's happening in the industry, based on who's signing up to to to show at the shows, and I'd love for you to to share some of that, of what you've noticed over the years, of how the California industry has changed and who's showing up at the shows compared to who's showing up in the shows in New York.

Rama Mayo: 43:03

Okay, that's a good question. So, so, new York, we are like waiting list like crazy still for, like the non-cannabis brands. Right, we want, we really want cannabis, licensed cannabis brands, that's it Now. Of course, if Puffco or one of the other companies that we've worked with forever that everyone loves, that we love, of course, wants to do it, of course that's fine. But even, like you said, like the ATM companies or the packaging companies or all that stuff, most of those people are on waiting lists and we just won't take them in, probably. And New York, it's the first time, so it's hard to gauge, right, we don't really know what's going to happen. And New York also has a limited footprint. We can't expand. You know, santa Rosa, we have a billion square feet, so we can kind of compress and expand and contract as the shows.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 43:52

In New York? Will you include, like New Jersey brands or Massachusetts brand, like other Northeast brands or or buyers from places that are, because it's so dense, there?

Rama Mayo: 44:02

yeah, that the the goal is that, of course and I thought we'd have a lot more of that but with the new york law, the way that that we are reading it, it's um, those brands could come but they couldn't have or share product whatsoever. So if that brand wants to come and show hardware or something or packaging, of course, but without them being able to, even if they bought, brought, bought product and brought it over and sampled it, they could still get in trouble because you know, we don't have a license in new york yet they don't have them for licenses or whatever. Um, and that's other, I'd say the other big thing, the biggest thing is probably the compliance right. Hallflower Santa Rosa and Ventura is a compliant event. Licensed is so difficult to like, do the every part of it, the planning and the permits and the fire department and all the different stuff that needs to happen to go into it, you know. And then we're always experimenting.

Rama Mayo: 44:57

Even this show in Santa Rosa, we're changing it up again. We're changing the entrance. We're changing the entrance, we're changing the format. We added a, we took the layout of the big building, we flipped it like, almost like reversed it a little bit inside, uh, which created like a lot more space in the middle. We are expanding the outdoor area, we're pulling back from some of the other structures that that we did in the past, because you know we want to put everyone kind of tighter.

Rama Mayo: 45:21

But it's just like an ongoing. It will never stop evolving. You know the plat, we call it a platform, I call flowers platform. It would always kind of evolve as the industry does. In 10 years it could be like here's how we do it, but now every time we're like what's new, what's you know, and we're we're so in touch with the exhibitors and the buyers. We like pull them surveys and all that kind of stuff that you know, we, you know everything they don't like. We try to fix the next show and things like that. So you know we just haven't been able to do it for New York yet. You know we don't know what to fix yet.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 45:53

Yeah, so there are a lot of cannabis events. You've touched on them a little bit and some of the others kind of how do you think about that? Does it feel like like it's a highly competitive space? Does it feel like there's room for everybody? Uh, what, what does it take really to have a winning event in the space?

Rama Mayo: 46:09

yeah, before I say that, I would say that and this is coming from me that there needs to be more events. All right, and I think that's for Like, imagine, if you think, if we're music or something you know, and there was one festival a year only, you know what I mean or one concert, you know what I mean. Like music or football. Think of your sports. There was only the Super Bowl and no, nothing in between. Yeah, it'd be big but there wouldn't be, like you know, it wouldn't be this big worldwide phenomenon. You know what I mean. So I think the consumers need a lot more to go to Every weekend. There needs to be something happening for all the different types of consumers to start going out, right. So to me, I would say that's how I really look at it Like we need more.

Rama Mayo: 46:52

And then, as far as the competition and stuff, I mean I think we're friends with everybody. You know, like we're for the most part, maybe not the b2b shows as much, but like you know george gage with mj unpacked, we're friends. You know he gives us tickets and takes care of us. We take care of him. You know, we know the baked guys that do parties around us respect my region does some stuff. We know them very well. Um, who else do we like? The knee can guy was very nice. We've reached out, talked a couple times. I'm blanking on his name, fucking dr k kush. Doc is a dear friend of ours, dear, dear, dear friend of ours. You know, um, I don't know it's olympics, but that looks, that event looks incredible and there needs to be more of those, you know. So. Yeah, I don't know. I, I'm my name's rama. My mom's a crazy hippie lady. You know it's like my partner danny would probably think everyone's our competitor. You know what I mean. But you know. But the state fair just happened. We love them. What embark and James up there are doing, you know um, outside lands with grasslands, we love. You know what outside lands and then bark and super fly are doing, you know.

Rama Mayo: 47:55

So I want, I want the industry to be gigantic. I had an old client that had a surf company and still has a surf company and a brilliant, brilliant guy, and he came to me and originally said I want to launch a surf company but I don't want to take away from what's there. I want to raise the pond so much that the little amount we take away is it's fine because we've raised it. You know what I mean. So that was like a wow, it's an interesting approach, you know. So that's how I feel with with cannabis Like we need everyone in on this. You know what I mean. We need we need all the grandmas, we need all the corporate companies in on this, we need Taco Bells and all these people coming in to the space for it to really to be like as big as we all want it to be. You know, awesome.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 48:43

Well, why don't you just put it out there for the audience of when the upcoming Hall of Flowers is and where the location is, so people know how to find you?

Rama Mayo: 48:51

Yeah, so Hall of Flowers is in Santa Rosa September 10th and 11th and B2B only. And then we're in New York City October. Did I say September 10th and 11thB only, and then we're in New York City October. Did I say September 10th and 11th? Yeah, let me start over. Okay, I did Give her yeah anyway. And then we're in October in New York City on October 8th and 9th. Yeah, b2b as well. So Pier 36 in New York City and Sonoma County Fairgrounds in Santa Rosa.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 49:18

Awesome and this has been an incredible conversation. It is time yeah, it's so fun to learn about your story and everything you're doing. It is time for our last call Rama. So what is? Your final message for our listeners. It can be advice, call to action. Closing thought.

Rama Mayo: 49:34

Are the listeners all like industry people-ish, b2b industry people, right? Yeah, mostly, as we talked about before. Yeah, perseverance, that's my message.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 49:44

Perseverance I love that. I agree, yeah, yeah, stay resolute folks. Well, rama, thank you so much. Um, it's been a pleasure, I hope, to hang out and see you and share a joint at an upcoming hall of flowers.

Rama Mayo: 49:58

So absolutely, absolutely.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 50:01

Let's, let's do it.

Rama Mayo: 50:02

Yeah, thank you for having me.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 50:03

Well, thanks for joining us today. Have a great one. Well, what'd you think folks? Rama's? Pretty cool, right? I appreciate everybody that is engaging with this podcast listening live. Um, thank you so much to our teams at Vertosa and Wolfmeyer and to our producer, eric Rossetti. If you enjoyed this podcast, please drop a review on Apple, spotify, youtube or wherever you listen. It helps listeners like you find our content. So, thank you. Please like, subscribe, share and, as always, folks stay curious, stay informed and, most importantly, keep your spirits high. That's our show.