Kimmie Gamez: 0:00

I'm like a two to four, six milligram girly tops. Like I turned into a raging hyena at five milligrams. Like I can literally not control my face. I will like giggle. People will like I think they're looking at me, they're not. I start laughing Like it's awful. I mean, it's very fun because I like to laugh, but then I'm in pain the next day because my cheeks hurt.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:17

But anyway, hi friends, I'm Anna Rae, co-host of High Spirits Pod, and we are hitting our 100th episode on August 5th. We kind of can't believe it, but it's true. Thanks for coming along for the ride, thanks for being a part of building this community. Engaging with us, it really, really means a lot. We are opening up to you, our listeners, in hopes that you will ask us questions. Anything that you want to know about us, about what we think about the industry, really anything. You can submit your questions by going to high spirits podcom slash ask, and you can submit audio questions or send us a text, and your submission might even end up on the podcast. We are incredibly grateful for all of the guests who have joined us over the past two years, all of the listeners that have joined us. You guys are an incredible group of people that are trying to up-level what you know about cannabis, think about things in a new way, and we're just really glad to be along for the ride along for the ride.

Ben Larson: 1:34

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 98 of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson and, as always, I'm joined today by Anna Rae Grabstein. It's Tuesday, july 22, 2025. And I'm sitting in Denver, colorado, sipping on some one milligram hemp beverages that you can pick up at a bar or restaurant. I didn't even know that was a thing. It's one milligram, I'm not going to get me too high, but yeah, kind of normalizing, kind of cool. Maybe I'll be a little bit soberish on the show today. And, rae, how are you?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 2:03

I'm good I'm back at my home studio today, but I have been on this wild journey deep in nature. When I talked to you guys last week, I was about to depart and I spent four days on the Rogue River so deep in the wilderness it was absolutely amazing. I saw a bear, multiple bald eagles, we fished, we rafted, we capsized, we slept under the stars. It was fabulous and I totally disconnected from all technology and work. I want to do it more. I'm kind of sad to be back in life, but it's cool. I have a pretty good life too, and I'm aware of that.

Ben Larson: 2:48

Sounds majestic. I was actually sitting having coffee this morning talking to a couple of colleagues in the space, and I have realized that I have this unfounded, not fear, but I think I just decided that one way I don't want to accidentally go is drowning in a capsized river raft, and so I don't have this calling to go whitewater rafting like most people do, and I feel kind of like a little disappointed with myself, like I want to go white, I want to want to go whitewater rafting, if that makes any sense.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 3:21

I will tell you. So we had these big rafts that we could go on in, the white router rafts, or there were the inflatable whitewater kayaks and there was singles and doubles and I went in a double kayak. I was feeling confident with my eight-year-old son and I was in the back steering, and we went through one rapid. It was great. And the second rapid, we fully capsized. We both were out of the boat. It was great. And the second rapid, we fully capsized. We both were out of the boat. I was floating down the river quickly in front of him. I turned back and saw his little helmet above the water, so I knew he was okay. But he was screaming and crying and I immediately felt like, oh my gosh, I can't help. What do I do? It was terrifying. So I understand your fear and we got through it. It was fine. It was totally safe. He got back in the boat. We had people around, but uh, yeah, not for the, not for the faint of heart well, I will.

Ben Larson: 4:19

I will stay here and drink my coffee, and at the clayton in denver. It's a lovely spot. Cherry creek, uh yeah. And um hotel yeah, it's solid. Got a nice little steam rooming gym downstairs, pool on top and you can order your fables at the pool.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:35

And again, I just this podcast is not sponsored by fable no, no in fact.

Ben Larson: 4:41

In fact uh, shout out to fabric, who I I also been drinking they have a one and a half milligram. So weird, colorado. This is also going to be a learning opportunity, not just an advertisement for Fabric and Fable and also High Spirits, although that says five milligrams, it's not allowed. Oops, anyways, colorado, weird limits 1.75 milligrams of THC plus at least 15 milligrams of CBD or CBD or something, and so that's what they've determined they being the legislators and policymakers to be non-intoxicating. And so we were meeting as the hemp beverage coalition here in Colorado last night A great group of people, people, a lot of people that you've known in the industry for for decade or more trying to get that 1.75 elevated to five so that we can harmonize, like what's going on in all the other states. Of course, that would require removing that 15 milligram requirement and maybe removing the word of non-intoxicating, but, yeah, interesting foundation, yeah, and that you have a framework that works in where alcohol is sold.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:50

Well, I think it's a great segue into talking about some of the news that is top of mind in the space state that has a pretty significant hemp industry that is talking about intoxicating hemp regulation or prohibition, and that is Texas, texas. So, yes, yesterday the session began, the special session that the governor called, and the governor, as we all remember, vetoed SB3 and directed the legislature to continue its work on hemp. And yesterday that session started and Senator Charles Perry basically reintroduced SB3 as Senate Bill 5. And the bill bans most cannabinoids except CBD and CBG and creates a bunch of criminal penalties for sales and possession and a lot of the same things that SB3 does. And this is just the beginning of a discussion. It's what it sounds like. It's the beginning of a negotiation.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 6:56

I've been doing a lot of negotiations recently and I think it's interesting to see how people start off, like how they want to play their hand, how aggressive they want to start, and I think it's interesting to see how people start off like how they want to play their hand, how aggressive they want to start, and I think that what we're seeing is that the prohibitionists in Texas are starting out with a fairly aggressive stance, but we have some time to see where this lands and where compromise happens. So I don't know. The governor called for regulations, not prohibition. What do you think?

Ben Larson: 7:24

Yeah, but the prohibitionists are still calling for prohibition. They've done so with SB5. They've started the hearing this morning. It's been live streaming. It might be live streaming right now when basically, we're hearing the same talk track of reefer madness and just trying to say that this is equivalent to heroin and killing kids and yada, yada, yada. So same shit different day and we just need to see where the negotiation goes. It feels kind of helpless, you know, sitting on the outside, but you know we do have people on the ground live tweeting or slacking or whatever it is. We need to see positive movement here because it's not the only state where this is being discussed.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 8:16

And we have the federal discussion as well. Cannabis that is being exported into Germany and it's really pretty wild to see what's happening. Canada accounted for 43% of the imported dried flower into Germany for the first quarter of this year and it actually seems to be looking like the imported flower volume in 2025 is double 2024. So we're talking about 100% growth in the market year over year. And Canada is just getting to have it all because the US is fighting over state level prohibition instead of opening up access to a global market for cannabis. And the US could be this incredible dominant global player. But unless the US shifts its federal prohibition on cannabis exports and on cannabis in general, it's going to continue to forfeit all of this opportunity that the Canadians are just really happy to take advantage of while we sit on the sidelines.

Ben Larson: 9:22

Yes, and they're really happy because it's saving their businesses. So I don't think the Canadians would be so happy if they were having to compete with us for the demand in Germany. So you know, I was talking to some Canadian friends and everyone knows the market's been up there, has been pretty dismal or just completely dominated by a few different operations, but now, because of this dynamic, it is actually more advantageous for them to sell into Germany than it is to focus on their own domestic sales. So yeah, it's an interesting market. But yeah, I agree with you, I think the U? S is far behind what the California manufacturers are are being accused of doing illegally throughout the us. The us wants to do legally around the world.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 10:10

um, so we have a long ways to go to catch up yeah, for years people have always said that the canadian cannabis was mids and that california cannabis growers were producing way better quality. But doesn't really matter, because that's what's available on the market and and I will say I think the quality in Canada has stepped up. It's not bad, yeah. So last little news update before we jump into our awesome guest, who's going to be way more interesting than these newest updates, is that the Senate did just this morning confirm Terrence Cole to be the new permanent leader of the DEA, and obviously all of you know what the DEA is, but notably they are the agency in charge of the rescheduling process. So we'll see what happens under the new Cole administration at the DEA. More on that in the coming months.

Ben Larson: 11:02

More on that to come, and I did see NCAA just released a press release urging Mr Cole to reassess rescheduling, which is the number one thing the DEA could probably do for us in the near future, and what I've been hearing from different circles around the industry is that maybe come fall, I think there'll be a lot of pressure to see rescheduling resurface in the fall, so that would be amazing.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 11:30

If we could be done with 280E before, before the next tax year. So anyway, today, on high spirits, we are talking with the founder, who's not just building a business. She's reshaping how we're thinking about drinking, sobriety and what it means to feel good. I'm really excited to welcome Kim Gomez, who's a serial entrepreneur and founder of Soberish, which is an online marketplace selling hemp-based and non-alcoholic social alternatives. She went from a viral TikTok experiment to a multi-million dollar brand without a dollar spent on ads, so we're going to hear about that.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 12:10

What makes Kim's story so interesting isn't just the numbers, but it's also just the way that she's gone about it in this bold, viral way, building something unique and special. I stumbled on it I don't know, at least over a year ago, because I was surprised that there were so many hemp brands selling DTC, but there wasn't really a curated store that you could go to and see many different brands or order multiple products from different companies at once, and Soberish was actually the first company that I saw doing that, which was really exciting, and since then there have been some others that have followed behind I'd say fast followers, like I know that Juana started a marketplace where they've curated some additional products to their own, but I think that Soberish was the first and really has taken a different approach to targeting the consumer and curating a really cool mix of brands.

Ben Larson: 13:08

Yeah, no, I love it and I just, I just love the word and I'm going to try to bring Kimmy back up so she can join in on the conversation, but I think it's just such a great brand asset and I'm a big fan of being sober.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 13:24

We're really excited to welcome Kim today to High Spirits. Hi Kim.

Kimmie Gamez: 13:29

I'm sorry, I apologize. About technology, it's one thing, obviously, we love all things technology, whether it's marketing or the marketplace, but man, is it failing us today? So thank you first and foremost for having me.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 13:42

Oh, thanks for being here, and you sound better now. It's great. So why don't you tell us where the name Soberish came from, since we were just talking about it?

Kimmie Gamez: 13:54

and we think it's really creative and fun. So you talked a little bit about this. Soberish was like a social experiment. I was in my past life, with my previous companies, I led all things marketing, and so I was really just trying to see if I could keep my marketing chops, because I took an amazing role leading entrepreneurship and innovation at Michigan State University's Research Foundation. So I just want to stay relevant and so I'm like I'm going to use this app called TikTok and, you know, see if I can crack the algorithm and then go back to my teams and help, you know, coach them with this new trending tool.

Kimmie Gamez: 14:21

And my daughter was like I was like honey, I need who's 15?. I'm like you need to like create a name and whatever. And she and I well, I'd started. I was like Kim Gomez, something, something, number, number. And she's like mom, that is so lame, kimmy G. And so we changed my name to Kimmy G and so originally, when we had the whole idea for soberish, I was like what do we call it? Kimmy G's, something or another, and I'm like it's like we're sober but not sober ish. And I was like GoDaddycom is the domain available? So, yeah, that's how the name came about.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 14:55

That's amazing.

Ben Larson: 14:56

That's awesome. So you were launching Soberish. But how was that interface in your like discovery of where I know you from the hemp beverage community? Was that all one and the same, or was it just this broader concept of non-alcoholic kind of lifestyle?

Kimmie Gamez: 15:14

Oh, my goodness, it was like the happiest little accident. So, again, I'm a serial entrepreneur, have led a couple companies to acquisition and my last company I was like well, it was a marketplace, grew to a couple million users and it was acquired back in 2021. And at the time I was like I am not doing this again. It's like a roller coaster being a founder, even though there's, like you know, big payoffs, at the end it could all crash and burn at any point. And so I'm like I'm just going to take this win and enjoy it. And I got bored.

Kimmie Gamez: 15:41

You know, I took this job at the university and I'm like I'm used to working founders hours, and so my mom, who struggles with alcoholism, moved in with us. It was actually two years ago, so I just actually saw like our very first video and I was like mom, like let's try some of these, like sober, like sober curious is like this movement, there's all these non-alcoholic products. Like maybe we should try one. And I want to do a video of us like just because I want to use this tool. And so, yeah, I'm like I was a non-cannabis user, guys, I knew nothing about any of it. Like I was raised in the dare era. I was like, oh no, Kim Gomez can't do those things. And so my very first product I tried was Little Saints, and it had CBD in it. And I remember asking my mom I'm like, oh my gosh, are we going to get high Like her mom's?

Kimmie Gamez: 16:27

like old pro she's like no, like we'll be just fine. Well, and then so we tried it and I did not like it, but we did a video and like so people were like commenting other products we should try, and so we got our hands on some can and again got the can and it was like or got the products and like two milligrams of THC and I don't know four CBD or whatever it is, and again, so we're again prop up the phone, I want to use this tool and I'm like all right, so nervous, like I was like being completely raw, like in the video, sweating, and I'm like it's probably gonna taste like a skunk's ass, but mom and I are ready with doritos in case we get too stoned. Like the couch is clean, like let's do it. And so mom and her still there and I'm I now.

Kimmie Gamez: 17:17

I think people on the other end of the camera probably like oh, these poor souls. But now I took it and I'm like, wait a minute, it actually tastes really good, like what, and it's only 10 calories or whatever it was in it. And I was like what, and so I'm like okay, I'll report back on effects. Well, I ended up getting a little buzz and then totally forgot about the camera. So the next day I was like okay, so I have to say what happened, and so I like just talk, like you know so.

Kimmie Gamez: 17:43

I was like it felt like mine, you know. And so what happened is people on the other end of the camera watching this like shit show of a series that I had started were like, where can I get it? Like how did you really feel like, did it? Did it taste like skunk? And it's like no, they're like but is it like are you gonna go to jail? And I'm like I don't think so, and so, just me and my own capacity, I'm like looking up, like how am I able to ship this into michigan? Like, and can I go to jail having this with me? And so, yeah, that's how it all started and that's honestly.

Kimmie Gamez: 18:14

I never wanted to become a business. I honestly just wanted to see if I could crack that silly algorithm. And but then brands started seeing some of our videos were like going viral and brands were reaching out for us to try their products. So my mom and I turned into these really cringy influencers trying a bunch of products and it was was really fun. I mean, honestly, some of our best videos are just mom and I just like belly laughing, like absolutely laughing, just like raging hyenas and like we don't even say anything, and those are the ones that have gone like mega crazy, viral and so fun to do it with my mom, sorry, back up, half of the products that brands would send us were garbage, and so I'm like, why is there not like an Angie's list for these products? And so I'm like I can do a marketplace.

Kimmie Gamez: 18:56

That was my last company did that Like, let me just see, let me just do a test. And so I threw up like one landing page with links out to all the brands to track conversions and I was like I'll just see how much, how many sales we're getting for these products we're talking about, and I thought maybe we were selling like a couple of cases. I didn't know. We had $60,000 in sales through those links in the first month, and so I was like, damn it, this is a business, this isn't a hobby. So, yeah, heads down built this bridge we launched last february, like a year and a half ago and now your mom's an influencer.

Kimmie Gamez: 19:32

Yeah, I love it yes and it is her birthday today, so oh, happy birthday, mom.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 19:39

Well, so this, this concept of a marketplace, you talk about how organically it started, but really, when you guys, there weren't any other marketplaces for hemp beverages and hemp intoxicating products out there and I think it was a really unique idea, why was nobody else doing it? Did you realize that no one was doing it when you did it, that it was this really unique opportunity in the space at the time?

Kimmie Gamez: 20:07

I would hate to think we were the first, because there were other just like marketplaces for all things like hemp, cannabis, like smokables and all of the things.

Kimmie Gamez: 20:15

But they were very much like when I went to visit them. It was like THC and big pot leaves and like neon flashing lights and all these things, and I was like, oh, like my kids are going to see me on this website, you know. And so, honestly, I was like Like my kids are going to see me on this website, you know. And so honestly, I was like can I think there needs to be a site for people just like me who are very curious about this category, who are non-cannabis users, who do not understand the cannabinoids, who do not understand all the science? They just really want to know how does it taste and how am I going to feel, and just literally someone holding their hand. And so I think our whole idea of being video first is because, like, if you come to Soberish, the first video on the site is like hey, girl, welcome, because 98% of our customers are girls. Like hey, girl welcome. Like what are you interested in? Like what are you here for?

Ben Larson: 21:19

And like one of the prompts is like I'm so terrified but I really want to learn more. You know like, and then we just walk them through like a quiz, like, and give them like six options at the end, just as if you're walking into a bottle shop or to a bar. I of them are that kind of total new where, like, you're helping convert them into the space or in at least introduce them potentially to the products.

Kimmie Gamez: 21:36

I would say over 90%. So I don't know like we're not capturing the data, like how many times have you consumed cannabis? But you know they're definitely interested in low dose options. I'm terrified of getting two stoned. So I think I joke that.

Kimmie Gamez: 21:52

I think everybody has that gummy story. You know that they had a gummy or took too many and then all of a sudden, you know, ended up two stony baloney, as I say on social media, and there's like that was my thing. I took a gummy with my brother I have no idea how many, how much, how much it was and I was like where are my kneecaps? I can't feel my legs. Wait, I can feel my ankles, but I can't feel my like whatever. And I'm like why would anyone want to feel this way?

Kimmie Gamez: 22:13

So I never tried another product again and so I feel like, for the most part, all of our customers either are in that never have tried, or they have had something and had a bad experience, whether it was straight THC and got a little bit anxious or too much, um, but are definitely that. You know it's not that they want they have an issue with alcohol, it's that they just want an alternative one that you know maybe our customers are on a weight loss journey so they don't want the empty calories. They also, um, can't hang with the hangovers. You know I hate, and I know we don't really talk about that, because you can get like hangover experience if you have like too much cannabis or mix it or however, but for the most part, I mean they're just looking for alternatives in their lifestyle.

Ben Larson: 22:57

Yeah, I love it that you're creating a place for these products, because one of the conversations that we're having in the space right now is what is the right dosing? And I know in the space right now is what is the right dosing? And I know it's a very broad answer, very nuanced. But when you ask a retailer and retailers will answer on based on what it's selling it's usually capping out at whatever is available in the market. In most cases we're talking like 10 milligrams, like 10 milligrams are outselling five milligrams, you know 20 to one or something like that. And then you talk to other brands that are leveraging other marketplaces and they're like oh, 50 milligrams saved our company. And you go into a dispensary and it's all 100 milligrams, and so what happens is like these new consumers kind of have the potential to get shut out of the game because a retailer is just following the money. And I'm just curious as to your perspective on that particular conversation.

Kimmie Gamez: 23:51

Yeah, and I love this because I'm like a two to four, six milligram girly tops, Like I turned into a raging hyena at five milligrams, Like I can literally not control my face. I will like giggle. People will like I think they're looking at me, they're not. I start laughing Like it's awful. I mean it's very fun because I like to laugh, but then I'm in pain the next day because my cheeks hurt.

Kimmie Gamez: 24:11

But anyway, my whole concern with that is again I can only speak for myself and our customers is that if she has already had a bad experience with a gummy and she goes into a store and the only thing that's available or the only products that are like kind of pushed or recommended are 10 milligrams, she's going to have that exact same experience with that 10 milligram can as she had with that 10 milligram gummy.

Kimmie Gamez: 24:39

And because I don't think in on a retail store shelf they're educating If you're new, start with two milligrams. And again, because it's not a consumer behavior to open up a can, to drink a quarter of the can, Like it's, that's not normal, Like you want to down the entire beverage, Right. And so I just think there's so much we can do and that's like kind of the next phase of Soberish is like how can we help both on premise, so in restaurants and bars, as well as in retail, because we are working with, like you know, so many brands in the category, but also we really I think I don't want to say we've nailed, but we've worked really hard to try to educate the consumer and I think we can bring that into stores as well.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 25:24

You. You brought up your consumer going into a store or potentially a dispensary. You know that your home state is Michigan store or potentially a dispensary. I know that your home state is Michigan, which is considered a mature cannabis market. There's been a medical program there for a really long time and adult use the prices are known to be some of the cheapest in the nation and the legal regulated space how, how do you think about how you fit in and what you're doing as it relates to the to the adult use regulated cannabis market?

Kimmie Gamez: 25:53

Again, I have only ever stepped foot in one dispensary in my entire life, even when I was doing customer discovery. That was the one time Cause I was like, oh, and I'm like somebody's gonna recognize my car. Like look at, think about how absolutely stupid this sounds. But I was like somebody's going to recognize my car and be like that's Kim Gomez, she is a business owner in town. Like that was just that stigma that I was raised with. That I'm like what am I? What am I doing? And then I went in and I was just completely overwhelmed and again it was just this really uncomfortable situation of them like scanning my ID and I'm like, oh, my like, how, why is this so hard? And then I just felt so embarrassed asking questions with these like ultra professionals, these bud tenders behind the counter, and I'm like this is just. I just felt like this wasn't meant for me and so for us.

Kimmie Gamez: 26:42

I think both things need to exist. I think the heavy consumers that are using cannabis for a certain way, that need that really high, you know, milligram count dispensaries go where they can get those high potency. But then you need that like very basic beginner level that somebody should be able to order a two to five milligram drink at a bar, or order, you know, or grab products on retail shelves or, hopefully you know, come and try products at Silverish. Did that answer the question?

AnnaRae Grabstein: 27:10

You have just described in such an important, clear nutshell kind of the, the opportunity that is outside of the adult use channel, and how many consumers, clearly like yourself, are not being reached by the dispensary model. And I think that, within the context of access and choice, dispensaries aren't hitting it for everybody and it's it's really it's nice to have you out here educating the world about this whole other group of people that do deserve to have access to cannabis products but are most likely not going to enter a dispensary a second time.

Kimmie Gamez: 27:49

Right.

Ben Larson: 27:50

Talking about this like regulatory convergence and like creating what sounds like a bifurcated system. I think this is the kind of a topic that comes up a lot. Even last night at the Hemp Beverage Coalition meeting. In its current state and I know that's very fluid we mentioned Texas at the top of the show. You know there's the federal conversation going on, but how do you, kimmy, as a platform, really navigate the complexity of the landscape? Right now and I talked to a lot of brand owners every brand owner has a different interpretation of what they're comfortable with versus the next brand, and so you're one that kind of is representing a brand in of itself was soberish, but also kind of reflecting where all these other brands are being sold. So it's like what's your philosophy around just navigating this, this fluid legislative landscape?

Kimmie Gamez: 28:44

Oh, isn't our industry like a dumpster fire, like every day? It's something like every day, yeah.

Kimmie Gamez: 28:50

Like the technology wasn't working. I'm like it's like we don't have enough to deal with. You know, like everything in our industry, like my computer should at least work, but yeah, so it's tough. I mean so every brand.

Kimmie Gamez: 29:02

So, again, going back to the brands that we allow on our site, we don't allow just anyone. We do our full compliance of. We have products shipped to us, we taste test them, we're checking packaging, we're checking COAs, we're checking their social media accounts, because these brands are a direct reflection of Soberish, and so, with that, they also, though, have their own what the states they ship to. So we try to stay flexible with the brands, and, because of the way that our platform is built, that there are some brands that are shipping into 30 states, there's other brands that are shipping into 46 states, and so we're able to navigate that and try to keep it, you know, not super confusing for the end customer, but and just again apologize and using a lot of content on online to talk, you know, about our category and the nuances, and so far that the customers have been receptive to it, though, and can you talk a little bit just to the extent you're comfortable about what that kind of infrastructure looks like?

Ben Larson: 30:04

Are you leveraging their existing 3PL systems or are you like managing all your own logistics?

Kimmie Gamez: 30:10

No, I'd love to tell you because I worked really hard I was like team of one for almost like a year building Soberish. So we built actually on Shopify and then we have this really incredible API connector on the backend and it basically, if a brand is on Shopify, we can connect directly into via our API, into their site, and so it is essentially a dropship model and so we can connect and get their images, inventory counts, variants, all the things, and at any time those things change on their site. Let's say they go out of stock, it comes out of stock on ours. But on the flip side of that, when a customer orders let's say they order Cycling, frog, costallo and Snoozy Gummies, she gets one checkout experience from Soberish. She gets an email, thank you for your order, and on the back end it calls and makes orders on their platform, and so then when those brands fulfill, they notify us or our system. They don't do anything, they just like fulfill their order in Shopify like anybody else would, and then the information comes back to Soberish, notifies the customer your snoozy gummies are on their way, your Costello is on its way, and so it's seamless because, again so, my background, my previous company, was a marketplace and I said the only way for this to work is if it's seamless.

Kimmie Gamez: 31:29

Because, again so, my background, my previous company, was a marketplace and I said the only way for this to work is if it's a win-win for everyone and if it's simple. These brands do not want to babysit one additional platform. They don't want to have to update images anywhere when they're out of stock. They don't have to be like oh crap, we have to go out of stock on Sogrish. No, all that information needs to pass over and it literally needs to have like sign up in five minutes or less. So our team, we can sign up brands in five minutes or less and customers have this again seamless shopping experience. That again seems to be working, knock on wood. But yeah, so that's how it all works. Is that what you're asking? I'm assuming.

Ben Larson: 32:00

Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you for going on that geeky journey.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:03

I mean, I think that there are two ways to look at building and it's using off the shelf tools and being able to scale quickly with with tools that are exist other in other places that you don't have to be maintaining. And then there's people that are bringing in capital and trying to build from scratch and and I think that what you've described is is such a scalable, fast to market model that I I really respect and I think it makes a ton of sense and I love the idea of a customer or a brand being able to get on the platform so fast. Will you share with us a little bit about the level of scale that you've achieved, how many orders or customers, revenue, whatever it is? That are some ways that we can understand the growth from when you started to where you are today.

Kimmie Gamez: 32:46

Yeah. So again, I just went from making silly, you know, videos with my mom. I mean, they weren't like dances or anything crazy, we were just giving like authentic reviews of these products. Um, so that started two years ago and February of last year, so 18 months or, yeah, uh, 18 months ago we launched soberish and I thought let's just continue to try to drive this organically. Let's see what we can do without ads. I'm like I don't want to give Facebook $1. Let's see what we can do. I told my mom I said wouldn't it be great if we could do $100,000 this year without ads? And she was like no way. I'm like, let's try. I'm like wouldn't that be fun? We have to like keep up on our stuff. We did a million dollars in.

Kimmie Gamez: 33:29

I remember when we first launched we got like 600 orders in like I don't know one of the like very first days and I was panicking because I'm like I hope this site that I've been doing all by myself actually works, because I thought I'm going to trickle in orders and like test. I didn't actually realize people were going to use it. So that was last year and then so in January of this year I thought, well, that's silly Kim, take your own coaching advice. If this is what you're doing without ads, think about what you can do with ads. And so we're going to. We're on track to do 7 million this year and yeah, it's been. It's been absolutely crazy. So orders I think we're at like 100,000 customers or we'll hit that soon. Yeah, it's just been absolutely crazy to just kind of see unfold.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 34:20

And of those customers? Are they coming back and ordering more? Are you doing a subscription model, which we're seeing a lot of DTC brands do? What are some of the patterns and behaviors that you're noticing?

Kimmie Gamez: 34:32

Yeah. So around 30% of our customers are repeat customers. One of our number one skews is our soberish sampler. So when we first launched, soberish customers are reaching out and saying which products do you recommend? But can I buy like one of, like a variety? And I'm like that's just not how our model works, like I can't, I can't do that, I can't have the brands. Just lend you one, you know can. And so I just reached out to some of the brands that we were friendly with and I'm like hey, would you send me like a hundred cans and I'll market them. You don't have to pay anything outside of just the product. You send me the product, I'll put together this sampler, we'll sell it online, I'll cover shipping, I'll cover all the other things that go along with selling a product, and it'll be samples and honestly, in front of customers that you probably would never be in front of. And yes, yes, yes, yes. And I'm like, wow, that was easy. And so we did that. We launched our very first box sold out in like two hours, I think it was. So was so crazy, and so then it was let's try to do this once every other month. And so that started and now fast forward again 18 months later.

Kimmie Gamez: 35:44

Where we are, we do at least um two to three samplers per month and so we've have 500 um. We have 500 sampler boxes per launch. So brands now send us 500 samples. But again, it's a great opportunity for brands to get new products. So if they're launching a new SKU and they want to get that product, you know, into the hands of somebody who is paying for the sample, that's a different mindset. Somebody at a grocery store who's just going to take the free sample, just to take the sample, is a person. But there's another person who's paying for samples because they actually want to buy. So, going back to your original question about retention, 67% of customers who buy that sampler box come back and buy a full-size item.

Ben Larson: 36:26

That sounds like a pretty decent logistics lift and just rewinding going to a million instead of a hundred thousand, like you're 10 X in your your target. So with that comes probably some growing pains, I'm assuming. What are some of the like pinch points that you have felt over the last 18 months that really required you to sit down Like how do I solve this? Like what do I need to hire for? You know what were some of those, those growing pains?

Kimmie Gamez: 36:56

Customer support one. You know, these brands obviously are all shipping from different locations at different times, so that is sometimes a bit, you know, confusing for a customer. Um, so we've hired a customer service team to handle, you know, customer service. Gosh, there's just so much. There's things like obviously outside, like even when we started that I didn't even think about. I'm like what do you mean? I can't just use Shopify payments, Like I have to use a payment provider and then after you hit a certain threshold you have different insurance requirements and all of these things. I don't know. There's just been so much Inventory management, running ads. Now that we're running ads, that is a beast.

Kimmie Gamez: 37:38

Just because I came from a world where anything kind of goes in ads and this, I can't say anything. I'm literally selling snake oil, I feel like on social media, and then driving them to a page that I still can't tell them what they're buying, and then it has to be at least one more click in before I can be like girl, it's THC. Sorry, sorry about all that back there, I actually can THC. I always call it the giggle grass, but so that's just all of that is just so many learnings, so many challenges, Also with everything that's happening, you know state by state. The customers have questions. You know, in Texas, for example, a lot of our customers there were like so where will I be able to buy the products? And it's like nothing passed, so like you're okay for now. And so there's just all this, because we're educating our customer. She comes to us as a friend, like so what now? Or what should I do, or all of these things. It's all overwhelming, but I have an amazing team, so we were really enjoying like building this together.

Ben Larson: 38:43

I'm going to keep you around, just so you can help expand my vocabulary. I'm really liking giggle grass and stony bologna, like this is. This is excellent.

Kimmie Gamez: 38:49

Every video. I'm like all right guys, I got a little stony bologna in the grass last night. Every video I'm like all right guys, I got a little stone on the grass last night.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 38:57

So you talked about coaching entrepreneurship in the university setting and you got there from a long kind of career doing a bunch of different things and you share online a lot about how you have a big family and you've started a bunch of restaurants and an app that you exited. You know I'm wondering what you're building for this time. What's the long game here?

Kimmie Gamez: 39:22

Goodness, there was no game. That's the thing. There was no. Like I'm going to start this business to do this. It was my mom needs me to support her. Let's try to make this fun. Was my mom needs me to support her? Let's try to make this fun?

Kimmie Gamez: 39:37

So it really started with, like how can we make you know this responsible way of living fun instead of her always feeling like she was like left out of the fun? And so now, honestly, like if I could touch more people like my mom, who now has been sober well, sober ish, but alcohol free, you know for two years, you know if I can help support them, great, but I'm also not a fool girl. I am doing this to make money. So one day, if it's an acquisition, if it's building a big brand that we're acquiring other brands, who knows I'm here? This has been. It was a hobby. It was just. There was no gain, there was no plan, and I think that's what makes it so beautiful, because I didn't overthink anything. I just let things happen and I kept my eyes and ears open to what was happening around me.

Kimmie Gamez: 40:21

Even when it came to social media, I was just. I'm like I don't. I've never made content online. I always drove our teams to make content for marketing but, like I was never the face of our brands. So I'm like nobody's going to follow this 40 year old woman who knows absolutely nothing about these products that she's consuming, and but I just was like I'm just going to throw this out here and I'm like, wow, that actually really worked.

Kimmie Gamez: 40:43

Why did it work? Can I do more of that? Is there like a recipe or like a, like a model that I can mimic? And so it's just been really nice to be able to like do all of those things. And then now I'm like holy, like I would have never thought we would be here right now. For, you know, as far as sales wise and number of customers, it's hard to think big picture and answer your question when, again, our industry it's like it's in a constant limbo. And so I just want to continue to create a great, you know, continue to support great brands, make great products, keep customers happy, bringing more people into the category, and then, at the end of the day, if there is some big sale or some big win, I'm here for that.

Ben Larson: 41:23

You say continuing, so that means you're at least enjoying it right now. You know it's always a mixed bag when you talk to operators in the space, so it's great to see you finding a customer and a, you know, a focused customer and really leaning into it. We've talked a lot about the beverage category kind of tangentially today, but I want to hear a little bit more about what you see as the products that Soberish will continue to offer or expand into. You know, over the years, or just, let's just say, the next 18 months, is there room for ultra low dose edibles? You know, I know you talked about your gummy experience. Gummies are typically five or 10 milligrams, if not more. But I've always wondered it's like, oh, maybe you could get a box of candies, or each one is one milligram or something like that. And how do you think about inhalables?

Kimmie Gamez: 42:19

Great question. So we initially started Soberish, to kind of be your virtual bartender to help you in this category of beverages, and we quickly added on gummies, really because more people were familiar with gummies in this category, and so it was like so this beverage is like this kind of gummy. They're similar, you're going to feel the same way, but this will actually like the whole like nature of consuming a beverage. This you can have something in your hand at a party where a gummy you're going to like pop before you go to the party. And so we have gummies, we have some mints now we just brought on 1906. So we have some. They're drops or they're like pill. You know format that they have.

Kimmie Gamez: 43:05

Yeah, I mean, I don't see us getting into any type of smokable again, are really just thinking about what our brand represents and it's, you know, trying to. You know, if you want to take a break from alcohol, this is an opportunity and so any kind of liquid form consumable is what we're experimenting or we're looking at. Um, as far as what was the other question? Oh, low dose. So I do see where low dose beverage, like the ones that you're enjoying, you're able to sit there now and probably have multiple cans, just as if you were drinking a Miller Lite or something and I'm not saying that's your drink of choice, but you know what I mean Like you can have multiple drinks, you know.

Kimmie Gamez: 43:46

In an event, the problem is cost. If we can just throw it out there, you know people don't want to spend $4 a can at retail, or $5 or $6 or whatever it's costing. Like that's the kind of an expensive evening at home they might. They'll be willing to pay, I think, at a restaurant, but not when they're buying it in retail. And so I think people, until the cost comes down, they're going to be those value shoppers and I think that's what's moving the 10 milligram options in store.

Ben Larson: 44:16

That's a really good point.

Kimmie Gamez: 44:17

And then, as far as on edibles, I would argue I mean, it's not like you're having an edible to be like, oh, craving that like sweet treat no, because then you'd want to eat the whole bag. So I don't know if there's a market for like a one milligram gummy. Again, because I think our, our customer she might be new, but she's not stupid Like, can I just like bite that in half or in a quarter to get the milligrams that I need. And so I really do love the brands that are like scoring their gummies because, again, it's just like really simplifying what you need to do as a beginner. Just take this much Um, but yeah, I don't, I don't know as far as edibles. I do see how it could work on beverages, but yeah, I don't know as far as edibles.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 44:55

I do see how it could work.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 44:56

On beverages, I want to push a little harder on the inhalables question because I think that you make it seem like a very simple choice and I think that it actually it kind of crosses over into a lot of the legislative kind of policy questions that we're having, because the industry as a whole is starting to bifurcate into kind of categories and form factors to try to kind of entrench their category into state law in various places, as some states have started to feel less comfortable with intoxicating hemp, be it certain doses or certain form factors.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 45:33

We've got the beverages lobbying as beverages and trying to ensure that the beverages are there, while the inhalable people are fighting really hard. But I think having a more challenging time and I think it just touches on this complexity to operating in this space and and I what I'm curious about is is really about how you think about engaging as a growing company in this complex policy stuff and I and you have this approach that's very uh, real and uh and curious, uh and also like ah, whatever, I'm staying out of this, I just know it's legal, whatevs kind of thing. But at some point you've started to build something really real and you want to protect it and stick up for it, and I'm wondering if you are getting involved personally and thinking about using the voice that you've created to bring all of these new consumers into the space and teach them about THC, if you're thinking about bringing that to the steps of of state legislatures and advocating for the plant and for access.

Kimmie Gamez: 46:46

So in my entire professional career I've never liked to take talk about politics, really take a stance publicly one way or another, just because, like for like, I had restaurants and bars for 17 years. Our customers are on both sides, so I had to stay very vanilla, even though I know, as a business leader, I should use my voice. It's hard because I don't. I love all of our customers and I don't really necessarily care Like. I do care, but I want to take care of them and they will have their own reasons to sit on one side or the other.

Kimmie Gamez: 47:18

As far as the smokeable, um, I'm not a smoker and when we've, you know, we have this thing called customer personas we say, like who is our like number one customer? Like, obviously it's not like the one person, but like who does she represent? Like the person who's buying the most from us, the person who's a repeat customer? Or like she's a 40 year old professional who has at least one child, who still works? You know her professional job, she's not smoking, and so for me that's an easy. Why would I bring in smokables and potentially not want her to represent? Like, because you have to think people wear Lululemon or Nike or whatever the brand is because it's a representation of themselves, and so if our customer already doesn't smoke, I don't want them to maybe not want to purchase from soberish because we don't like represent her. Well. But for now again, I don't like to talk politics that smoke bowls work for a lot of people. You know the high milligram dosage and all the things work for a lot of people. That's not who I'm fighting for, which is my customer yeah, yeah, this industry sucks you into to politics.

Ben Larson: 48:26

I've waffled on this a lot because all my life I was like I never want to be close to politics. And then I got into the cannabis industry and like, boom, boom, there I am, and sometimes I take a step back. I'm like it would be so much easier just to run my company on whatever game board is in front of me, and I would probably save 30% of my time.

Kimmie Gamez: 48:46

Nice though I found that when you do have a voice, it's you know, a reason you know, and that you put a story behind it and that you have empathy for those on the other side, because typically there is something tragic, a reason why families or people don't want, you know, a certain product in the market and we as an industry should empathize with them and not just take the other side. But we need to look at them as mothers, as fathers, as you know just another human and say I'm so sorry, like what can we do? Can we not sit on opposite sides of the table? Can we literally sit on the same side of the table and try to create something that works for everyone, so that that doesn't happen again? And I don't know. So it's hard, like not to get involved. But when you? But I just would hope that the brands, when they do that, they take that approach and I'm trying to take that approach.

Kimmie Gamez: 49:41

For example, I sent out an email to a hundred thousand plus emails today saying hey, if you are so inclined, there's this thing happening at the federal government. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Here's the form if you want to quickly take literally one minute of your time to fill out. If you do not, that is fine. I just want you to know what's happening in our space and I would really appreciate it and please let me know if you have any questions. And so again, just like I'm not asking you to, I'm leaving this with you if you'd like to do it, so anyway. Anyway, again on a tangent there, but hopefully that all made sense.

Ben Larson: 50:16

No, absolutely. I love that. I just saw a photo on LinkedIn yesterday I think it showed, like Paramount Stein and Jonathan Miller and a couple others, like sitting on the same side of the table on the hill, and it's like that's good, that's progress right On the hill, and it's like that's good, that's progress Right. That's, you know, building a unified voice when we are typically used to seeing these folks sitting Polar opposite at the table. But, yeah, I love that message, kimmy, it is political. Whether you're engaged or not, you are a public figure In a politicized space, and so I'm curious, not having expected to be here, how does that feel? You know, wearing that and representing that, and what are you excited about? The future of what that means for you?

Kimmie Gamez: 51:07

I just left Atlanta for the Hemp Beverage Expo and people would come up to me like, oh, I follow you. Or I'll honestly run into random strangers when I'm out and about and they're like, oh, I follow what you're doing, this is so great and so one. I'm honored to be in this category. I'm also it's almost like pinch me that this category actually respects me Because I know nothing about it. I'm such an outsider and I feel like any other category, I think, like automotive.

Kimmie Gamez: 51:39

If there was this six foot tall white chick from Michigan that's like I'm going to start a new car company but I know nothing about. I don't even know how to make an engine or what an engine looks like. I would be eaten alive. This category has been open arms. Look, I'm on this podcast with you all. It's so amazing and so I'm honored to be here. I hope I do it justice. That's why I try not to say too much, because I feel like I just don't know enough to have a stance on some things, except that I know what it's doing for our business, for our customers and again, just trying to empathize with those that could potentially be against it.

Ben Larson: 52:17

I think it's that humility that makes people willing to open their arms to you. So the industry is lucky to have you.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 52:25

Yeah, I'm so glad to have your voice out there. I've been in cannabis for a long time and when legalization first started unfolding, people talked a lot about bringing the yoga moms and the soccer moms and the new consumers into the space and they really just never materialized in the dispensary channel and I think you have really become an ambassador for that customer and for women in the space. So it's really fun to see what you're doing and, with that, as much as we would love to keep hearing about it, it is time for our last call. So, kim, what is your final message for our listeners today? Advice, call to action, closing thought. Mic is yours.

Kimmie Gamez: 53:12

Yeah, if you're a brand and you're struggling on where to start marketing, wise, just throw up a camera, start talking about your journey. Be a real person. People will flock to you. People will want to be a part of your journey, with you, and so, with that, those that are listening.

Kimmie Gamez: 53:26

I share every piece of my journey, whether it's I'm married to a Mexican man, here's my farm with my goat named Turkey and my five kids here in Michigan. Me struggling on the struggle bus with the business because something didn't go right, or it's me getting a little stony baloney with my mom, you know, over some giggle grass infused cocktails on a Saturday afternoon. I post it all on social media, whether it's Instagram, tiktok or Facebook. You can typically find me at Kimmy Gomez and on LinkedIn. I would love to connect with any brands or business professionals there. I'm trying to stay more active and share all of my tips and tricks for things that I've learned in the industry, because I'm an open book. If I can do it, everyone else should be able to do it, and so I just love to share the wisdom. So follow me there or connect with me on LinkedIn.

Ben Larson: 54:09

There you have it, folks. Kimmy Gomez, soberish, thank you so much. Thank you, go enjoy some giggle grass and get Stoney Bologna and check in. Let us know how it's going. Will do All right, we'll talk to you soon.

Kimmie Gamez: 54:23

Thank you.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 54:28

All right, anna Rae Well here's to a little bit more giggle grass and getting Stoney Bologna. She's so fun. I want to hang out with her. Like I get why she is a magnet for women and new consumers. And and uh, even though she said that she doesn't get involved in politics, then she dropped that. She sent out an email to a hundred thousand customers. Um so, uh, I will you know. I'll call that out, as I think that counts. And uh, when we have platforms, it is important to use them, and I think it sounds like Kimmy's doing that.

Ben Larson: 54:57

Absolutely, absolutely Well. What do you think, folks? Thank you so much for watching. Thank you for engaging, liking, subscribing, doing all the things the new consumer exists. Don't forget about them. Thank you to our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer, of course, our fabulous producer, eric Rosetti. If you've enjoyed this episode, please stop. Drop a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify, anywhere you listen. As always, folks stay curious, stay informed and keep your spirits high Until next time. That's the show.