AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:05

We want to give a quick shout out to our friends and sponsor over at KitPrint, the cannabis operators production design partner. Is your team getting bogged down with static and variable packaging layouts and product renders? Are you looking to support your retail and wholesale teams with better and more frequent state-specific sales and marketing assets? With KitPrint's production design team, you get files turned around in three business days or less at roughly 50% of the cost of the average full-time employee. New customers use code high spirits all one word when you sign up at kitprintco and you'll get 10% off your first two months. To learn more, go to kitprintco to book a call with their team.

Ben Larson: 0:53

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 79 of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson and, as always, I'm joined by my co-host, annery Grabstein, recording Thursday March 13th 2025. Got a great show for you. Today. We're going to be covering the entrance into the THC beverage space through the journey of hippie water. We've got the two co-founders Really excited to jump in Before we get there. Anna Rae, hello from Telluride hey Ben.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 1:22

For people that are not tuning on video, Ben is wearing a rustic flannel and he looks very much like he belongs in Telluride right now. Very rustic, I'm very proud of your style it feels so soft.

Ben Larson: 1:34

I forgot how soft flannel was. I think the last time I truly wore flannel is probably junior high and I was probably buttoning up at the top of the collar.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 1:43

Well, welcome to 2025. It's been kind of a rough week with daylight savings. I'm having a hard time being as up in the morning as I usually am. It has been tough.

Ben Larson: 1:56

I'm doing okay. It was tough. I don't know why they don't do daylight savings, time changes on like Saturday, so that you actually have an extra day to try to get your kids adjusted, because Monday was hellish. But yeah, my travel's been all messed up. I had a 5 am flight on Wednesday, so I think I'm back on track.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 2:15

Nice, nice, nice. Well, let's jump into a few quick news updates and then bring on the Hippie Water founders. Yeah, so I wanted to talk about Idaho. I don't know if we ever mentioned Idaho on the podcast.

Ben Larson: 2:29

What's Idaho? They don't like cannabis.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 2:32

They don't like cannabis. Yeah, idaho is one of the last states that has zero medical or recreational cannabis laws, and right now the Idaho legislator is putting an amendment for the voters to vote on onto the ballot that is going to block the voters from being able to ever legalize marijuana in the future themselves. It is the strangest voter initiative or voter amendment I have ever read the voters are going to vote to not have a vote.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 3:03

Voters are going to vote to not have a vote. The language is very simple. It says shall the certain section of the Constitution be amended to provide that only the Idaho legislator shall have the power and authority to legalize, manufacture, grow, produce, sell marijuana and other psychoactive substances? So what they're saying is please, voters, vote yes to only allow the legislator, not you, to be able to legalize marijuana. And, um, this is just one of the strangest things that I have ever seen. But the bottom line is that the Idaho legislator is really putting the stake in the ground, that they are reinforcing their state's anti-cannabis stance and is seeking to make future legalization nearly impossible, if passed. This is just not a good precedent, and I wanted to bring it up because, while Idaho is not a major, major state and I don't think many brands that I talk about are, uh, targeting it the people of idaho do deserve access and hopefully, by talking about this, we're going to be getting the word out that voters should not vote for this like who in the right mind would vote for this?

Ben Larson: 4:20

like, even if you don't want cannabis, you'd still want the voice.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:25

Yeah, the right to make a choice.

Ben Larson: 4:26

Man, Idaho's gone full Trump.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:30

It's very strange. Yeah, yeah, sorry, idaho.

Ben Larson: 4:33

Interesting, questionable about what all our state governments are up to these days. In California, we just got word that the emergency ban was extended. Coincidentally, I think, that timeline falls in line with the broader legislative session, and so you know, any of the assembly bills or Senate bills that are surfacing right now in Sacramento probably will take into consideration. You know what the future of hemp and cannabis looks like in California, but emergency ban continued, so no soup for you.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:09

Does it have an expiration date, like the last one?

Ben Larson: 5:13

I do believe it's September sometime. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I need to make time to get closer to it. There hasn't been a ton of receptivity and I know there's a lot of people pushing for it and talking about it making sense. But we really have to convince the people at the top, and that means the governor, the DCC, the speaker's office and the majority leaders. So if you have relationships, go educate those folks, not just social media.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:46

Absolutely. And what about Texas? Also looking at a hemp ban there since last week.

Ben Larson: 5:52

Yeah, I don't know if we have any more updates on Texas. I think it's getting batted back and forth. Everyone's looking at what's going to happen in the House. It seems like getting through the Senate is not going to be a problem for the bill, so we'll see. But there's also been movement in Florida. No ban, just further regulations and clarification. I think one that caught people's eyes was that there is no more direct mailing, so direct-to-consumer is kind of being blocked in Florida. There's also been a bunch of ingredients that have been banned, so flavors and hopefully our guests can elucidate this a little bit when they come on. But yeah, there's a ton of active ingredients and then also colors that have been banned from products. So if you're selling in Florida, look closely. I think there's a lot of packaging stuff as well. The binds are coming on.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 6:44

Cool. Well, let's just stay hopeful that this incredible industry is going to be able to keep growing in the face of all of this new complicated policy change. It's part of the game, right?

Ben Larson: 6:58

Just paying attention to it all. Honestly, it is a constant battle, but from our vantage point at Virtosa at least, it does seem like everything is continuing to grow. So is the conversation. We've been having more conversations lately with the leaders of the cannabis movement and the hemp movement and trying to bring it a little bit closer and trying to bring it a little bit closer, and so this year I think there'll be a big push to get the leaders of the USM Roundtable, us Cannabis Council, both sides attached, and CIA, everyone just talking a little bit more and talking about what we're actually trying to achieve as an industry, because if we don't, we're just pulling it in all sorts of different directions.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 7:43

Yeah, for the last 18 months or so, it's really felt like there have been two industries that we've been talking about, like are you talking about the regulated cannabis side, or are you talking about the hemp side? And more and more, as I see the future, it's a cannabinoid industry and it's a cannabinoid opportunity and there's different channels right now. But it feels like the inevitability is the policy ball keeps rolling. It's just going to get closer and closer in terms of mirrors, of expectations, of products across lines and who knows when it will all be one industry, but I'm convinced that it will be before my lifetime is over.

Ben Larson: 8:21

Yeah, I think that the big leap forward is kind of this understanding that different channels, yes, different product and form factors in different channels. So and that's germane to the conversation today Beverage is obviously at the forefront of that conversation and kind of bridging the gap a little bit in between the hemp and cannabis side.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 8:43

Yeah. So Hipp um, check it out, guys. We are going to bring on the co-founders um, two co-founders Sasha uh, co-founder and CEO, actress, entrepreneur and cannabis advocate. Um Sasha is best known for her role in pretty little liars. You might recognize her face, but she has transitioned from Hollywood to business, bringing her passion for wellness and innovation to the cannabis space. And she's here to destigmatize cannabis, empower women and build a great tasting THC beverage. And her co-founder Taylor, chief product officer, known as the beverage queen. And she is a food scientist and industry disruptor and has developed beverages for many companies behind the scenes all around the world, blending science and flavor and innovation to create products that you would recognize and hold dear. So, with Hippie Water, she's crafting the drinks and setting a new standard for an elevated social experience. I'm really excited to welcome you both. Welcome to the show.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 9:51

Thank you. Thank you, that was a beautiful introduction. I appreciate it. Also, come on Idaho. That's so disappointing.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 9:59

Right, I know Well, so let's just jump right in. Cannabis beverages are filling a gap. They're providing an alcohol alternative, and I know that that is close to both of your hearts. Sasha, why don't you just tell us a little bit about the journey? Why create a THC beverage? What got you here?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 10:24

Health honestly. I mean I like to call hippie water selfish products, getting high on your own supply, if you will. I have struggled with health issues much of my adult life and I was looking for an alternative to alcohol. Alcohol is everywhere. It's how you celebrate for holidays, it's at every work event. It's how you celebrate for holidays. It's at every work event. It's bringing friends over for dinner.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 10:47

It was just so ritualistic and I loved it in so many ways, but it was not working with my lifestyle anymore, not just health-related, but when I had my son. You can't have a hangover when you're trying to take care of a baby. It does not hit the same as it used to, um, and so I was desperately looking for something else, something that wasn't just having a sparkling water, um, at an event. It was. It was something that still, um, kind of did the trick, helped me wind down, um, helped me socialize, uh, in in the ways that I I'd like to and I'm used to, helped me socialize in the ways that I like to and I'm used to. And so Taylor, who I have been friends with for over 10 years I married her and her husband, alex, is also one of our co-founders. I turned to her because we were just chatting one day and we were living in different states and we'd have little dates over Zoom, and she was like, well, why don't you try cannabis? And cannabis had not been a part of my life. I had friends who smoked and that sort of thing, but it was never really an option for me. I think I grew up thinking, you know, having those guard rails is like no, it's like the same as that. And yeah, you know, I signed there and it was very serious, and so I hadn't really opened that door for myself. When she said I could have a cannabis beverage, I was shocked. I had no idea that that was even possible, and so I definitely fall under the canicurious side, which I think is really important for our business. But when I tried them, I just I didn't find one that I liked. They were too sugary for my health or they just I could still taste the weed. It was just not my thing. And so, taylor, being the beverage queen that she is, we just decided, well, why don't we make our own?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 12:32

And we realized, when we looked at all four of us my husband included, who is our other co-founder we realized we actually have the perfect combination to start this business. I've been an actress for over 25 years. I've been really lucky to garner a lot of amazing fans and reach all over the world, which happened to be in our demographic for the company, which is even more spectacular. Taylor obviously has an incredible career over 10 years experience in the industry. My husband, hudson, as our CMO. He has had lots of media experience, both in Hollywood space, behind the camera, social media, all of the things and Alex has been in startups and scaling his whole career and is just such an incredible expert in his field the way he talks you could listen to him all day.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 13:17

So we realized we could actually bootstrap this thing with some of our favorite people in our life and we did just that. I'm super proud of us. We're we're seven months in, we're in 11 States and total wine and and we're just, we're just rocking it and it's been an amazing journey and I'm so thankful to be in a business um with Taylor as my co-founder. You know female founded is really important to me, so I'm going to stop talking and I'm to let you ask me questions. Sorry about that Big intro.

Ben Larson: 13:44

It's wild. It's wild to have a crazy idea and to jump in and do it. It's another thing to say, hey, three best friends, you're coming with me. And so, taylor, as Sasha said, you have this mainstream experience developing beverages all around the world, and she comes to you with this concept. What was it that compelled you to say, yeah, this is a great idea. I'm going to risk my career and jump into this emerging category.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 14:13

Technically, taylor, it was her. Yeah, at the end of the day.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 14:17

I was the one going, sash I found something exciting, but what it really was is that I have been fortunate enough in my career to launch for so many big brands and that has been amazing. And you know, my favorite phrase is I fed you, you just didn't know it. And so I I got to fill that space and what that meant for the world. But at the same time, I was never developing with myself in mind, and alongside with Sasha's health journey, I've had my own. There was a point when I was in a hospital and I was told you have two more call-outs with your kidneys and you're on the donor list and I thought, oh, things have to change. Okay, so if things have to change, I need to make it happen, because I'm not satisfied with what's out there.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 15:07

So I said, sash, let's try these out, let's see what we think of the cannabis beverage world. And we went, wow, most of these aren't for us and that's okay because they can be for other individuals. But we wanted something that really catered to us and also showed other women like us that it was an option, because traditionally it's very soda oriented, it's very simple flavors, and we were like let's turn that on its head. Let's give this the care that the rest of the world gets and and bring it to life. And and that's really what happened, it was solely a selfish project that we said oh wait, this is real. Oh wait, people actually like it. Oh, we have a business. So it sort of just really stumbled upon itself. But, at the end of the day, this is what I wanted to create, and so when you taste it, it's just from our hearts.

Ben Larson: 16:00

I love how you guys are bringing in this kind of like health and wellness aspect to everything. And when I'm having conversations with policymakers and different organizations, a lot of the focus of the conversation kind of positions the category as like a true alcohol replacement for partying, for, like doing all this kind of stuff, a true alcohol replacement for partying, for doing all this kind of stuff. But there's this big disconnect to the story that you guys are telling and the positioning of the product versus how the regulators are perceiving this category. So I'm curious like and whoever wants to kind of tackle this is like how are you seeing the trajectory of this category or your product line amidst this conversation and how do we actually bridge that gap?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 16:49

I mean, I think both Taylor and I have great answers for this. I think she's traveling a bit. Do you want to answer? Do you want me to?

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 16:56

answer it from my lens, but I want Sasha to speak on this as well. A little bit, and essentially to give you a broader sight, is my role creating items for this country? The involvement is who are you creating for? And traditionally, I think that this category has been very segmented into the party space and into that sort of personality and we're here to go. Well, this should be broadened to a bigger scope. And what does that look like? And if you're at a grocery store, everything is created for the five foot four right-handed female. That is the optimal customer and we are simply taking that in mind and developing something for that and essentially for us.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 17:40

We're not doing this to party. The whole idea of Hippie Water is mostly your moment to unwind at home. I mean, most of our audience is just a woman trying to find time for herself and space for herself, and that's what we're catering for and to and that's why Hipp a we are. Hippie Water is a beverage company and a wellness forward company that simply uses hemp as an ingredient. So that's kind of our our overall broad scope and how we're choosing to position this.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 18:13

Yes, and actually to touch on what you said, taylor, about the consumer at the grocery store, the reason it's also that type of demographic is because women are the ones that purchase the majority of things in the country. Whether it's for their family, for themselves, for their kids, whatever it is, they're the ones at the grocery store most of the time picking those options, and whether it's for their partner or themselves or their kids, they are the ones looking at all of those products. So it's kind of an interesting thing to think about when we think about how things are marketed. But yes, ben, I would completely agree, there is a disconnect there. We also, initially, when we started the company, thought, wow, this is amazing, gen Z are not drinking as much alcohol. They are trying to find an alternative. We initially thought that they would be our market, not necessarily to party, just to fill this space of like. Look, you can have both worlds. And it turned out that our demographic is mainly ourselves.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 19:09

It is those hard workers, those caregivers, those parents or entrepreneurs that are just looking for a moment to unwind at the end of the night that isn't going to torture them the next day or the next couple of days or the next week and I know just based on my own personal experience I was shocked to find that I could have all of those things that I could have a low sugar, low carb product, low calorie product that was clean. That would also give me that relief, that would also help my sleep, that would also make me feel good in the morning, and the fact that we can have all of those things without compromise is glorious. And that's also what makes me so passionate about trying to destigmatize the product and trying to bring that disconnect, you know, trying to unravel it really, because I think there's giant opportunity here. You know where. You know newsflash finally finding out that cancer or that alcohol causes cancer Wow, who would have known? Who would have thought? And I think it's just so important that we position this and showcase that this is not scary. It's a controlled substance. It's still a vice. Children should not have access to it.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 20:16

But look at how great this is and and this is the direction that we should be going and if we want to keep our population healthier, this is the option and and I'm excited to be a part of that movement, and it's also why I'm really excited to use my platform for that because I truly believe in it. I wouldn't want to put my face on it if I didn't believe in it and and I think it's important for the world, americans to kind of hear that, like we have been told that this is one thing and only for a certain category and only for a certain demographic, but that it's a lie. It's a lie. You can enjoy this product and get relief from it and and, and you know, just relax in a way that is actually really good for you. It's giving you that, that piece, that that self-care aspect that I think a lot of us are missing.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 21:12

Most Americans have high stress lives. Take gender out of it. Most of us have a big stressor in our life and it is really crucial what we turn to, that that we all turn to something, and a lot of the things that we turn to are not great. So here's an option where you can have everything that you need and move forward.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 21:33

So, sasha, I love how you're talking about sort of this moment in time where we are of a consumer transitioning, but there's an inevitability within that context that eventually there is a new option for consumers. They know that this THC beverage option exists. It isn't as much about education. What does five to 10 years into the future look like for the category? What do you see this turning into? Is it fully normalized and this is just more popular than alcohol? What does the category look like in five to 10 years?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 22:09

I mean, that's definitely my hope. I think this year is crucial for that as well. I think a lot is going to hinder on coming together and making that unified voice. Ben, you were touching on that earlier as well. I want to see this product in grocery stores and bars and liquor stores and have it be as accessible as alcohol.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 22:32

I think that being able to get the alcohol industry interested in this space is also really important, not just for distribution on a convenience and logistics side, but also to kind of level the playing field here, where we can, in a lot of ways, you know, help each other. It can be in those same spaces and we it doesn't have to be so. So I don't know what the what, the right word is. We don't have to like be combative with each other. Let's let's kind of create an option for our consumer.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 23:08

Um, and I think that's really really important as well. You know we don't want to necessarily crush anybody. I think it's just more about implementing this in a way that um just gives consumers another, another option and just gives consumers another option and makes it not scary. There's a long history with cannabis and so much pain. Honestly, that was so unnecessary and so unfair, and so we have normalized alcohol so much that we ignore all of the toxic things that come with it, and it's kind of ironic that we are still in this position with cannabis. I think we're in the right direction and, and I think you know, we just need people to keep fighting the good fight in so many ways. But I really am optimistic for that, that five, seven, 10 years from now, where all of this has has truly paid off.

Ben Larson: 24:01

So, sasha, from now where, um, all of this has has truly paid off. So, sasha, you talked about a product that you are willing to apply your name and face to yeah um, and I want to talk about what celebrity branding means to you in this particular case.

Ben Larson: 24:17

we've seen some products out in the market and historically in the cannabis industry actually hasn't worked quite well where, like, it's the, the name, that is forward, but that's not the case in in, in how you guys have approached it. And so how have you thought about leveraging kind of your, your, you know your professional history and to help it accelerate your growth? But also, like, what are some of the pitfalls you're you're trying to avoid?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 24:45

I think we also. We got asked a lot of these questions really early on and I think that was was great because we know what our message is. I wanted to come and start this company knowing that I want the product to be able to stand alone. I want you know I had full faith in Taylor to create an incredible product, which she did One that can be its own brand and stand by itself and doesn't need a face in order to be the product. We didn't want to white label anything. I didn't want to be a part of the company. That was just kind of the face and kind of a facade or that. You know that token celebrity, celebrity branded product.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 25:23

I wanted to to make sure that we had a harmony between the two. I truly believe in this company. It's very much a baby of mine. I I want to see it succeed for so many reasons, not just because I believe in it, but because I also really believe in the message of female founded companies and and putting the work in and what that takes. I also wanted to go with this company because it fits my brand, not in that agenda sense, but just because it's part of my voice. It's natural I have a podcast that is all about females' voice and amplifying them and telling their stories, and women's health is a huge part of that. Women in business is a huge part of that, so everything really harmonizes well.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 26:06

But I truly did want to ensure and we take every precaution moving forward to make sure that, as much as I want this to be on my platform, I want to use my voice to to to not only destigmatize the industry but also, obviously, promote hippie water.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 26:20

I want to make sure that this company is successful by itself, that everything that it stands for is what we believe in moving forward, that it can be scaled, that we can start our media arm and really influence our space in a positive direction, create education in the space, utilize everything at our disposal when it comes to the mainstream audience, and I think it all plays really nicely together. But I do want to throw it to Taylor, because if we had a crappy product, it wouldn't be possible, and and I'm really proud that our products stand on their own and fulfill everything that I was was hoping for for the product itself, and I think it's it's um, it's awesome to be able to kind of put our product where our mouth is, and so I'm. I'm so thankful that we we have somebody like Taylor um in this company that just kind of just knows her shit. Can I swear on this one? I don't know. Sorry, linkedin, you can do whatever you want.

Ben Larson: 27:20

Can I swear on this one? I don't know.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 27:21

Sorry, linkedin, you can do whatever you want Awesome. I love that and I think that it's brave too, and that there is a stigma around cannabis and while it might be a part of your brand, I'm sure that you must have considered like is this also a risk for my personal brand? Or, like so many of us, when we've come into cannabis professionally, people are like well, if I work in cannabis, can I ever go back to not working in cannabis? And I think, over and over, people have proven yes, but there is a fear of just how you might get labeled and put in a box. But let's dive into the beverage, because we keep talking about it. And, taylor, you've mentioned that you have a background in food science. What was the process like of developing your first formulation?

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 28:07

Well, my very first formulation, I was so green that I'm sure my head was spinning. But over time and for people who might be new to us, hippie Water has three beverages out. We have Garden Party, island Getaway and Winter Groove, and they all are their own concepts. Overall, they're all meant to hit certain segments. So my very first project was actually a cocktail sauce for Dairy Queen Really odd one to throw out there for you. That was the first item I ever commercialized. But fast forward to now and learning that beverages are my absolute favorite thing to develop.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 28:44

I think it's fun to come into this space because there's not a lot of other food scientists, which I hope there is one day. I hope to kind of help pave that way. So so more people want to come here because it's so new and innovating. And you also mentioned what do you think it's going to look like five, 10 years from now? Well, I fully believe that, similar to the White Claws, seltzers are going to be the bare minimum and I think that there's going to be room where so much more is elevated and created, and because of that, I think that's how it's going to really become more common, and we're seeing those items in different cocktail mixers and things of that sort. But to come back to developing these products, there's multiple layers to this and I would say the very first one is who are you developing for? If you don't know your audience, you don't really have a direction to fully fit in what you want. And I said well, that's Sasha and I. That's generally a female who is generally trying to be health conscious not perfect never needs to be perfect but it's just trying to find the better options out there without the BS.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 29:50

I think that in the wellness space, there's a lot of adaptogens and there's a lot of hoopla around certain ingredients. Mushrooms are a really good example right now and I want us to be mindful in that development and going okay, how big of a scope do we want to be in health? And our focus in that term was well, adaptogens don't have enough scientific backing most of the time, so let's set that aside for now. But what is wellness? Well, that's 15% fruit juice from Italy. That's choosing to have a very flavor, forward and light product. That's choosing to.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 30:26

You know, if our competition in our space is essentially trying to fit into the wine down routine, typically it's for someone after work who's like, oh, I can't wait to just like pop that bottle open and pour a glass of wine. Okay, well then, what would make them turn to this instead? Okay, well, knowing that a glass of wine is roughly 125 calories, how do I beat that? Okay, 30 calories or less. Okay, what else would a woman look for? Low carb? Yeah, sure, let's make that happen. No added sugar, easy, and really just trying to leverage what that audience would look for.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 30:59

And another portion of that, too, was color. I think a lot of people in our space aren't utilizing color efficiently and what that means. So if you crack open a can of hippie water and let's use Island Getaway for reference, that's watermelon with lime and chili. That is the most beautiful Barbie pink you can imagine. Now let's say you want something closer to sangria. That's going to be winter groove. You want something that's more like a champagne. You reach for garden party and just really trying to leverage what does this audience want? And how do I influence every single one of their senses, versus just making a flavor that I think sounds good and I know I'm rambling a little bit here, but we're also messing with it. You're not messing with. We're using an ingredient that is very earthy. Hemp is a plant. It's going to taste like a plant. So how do you work alongside that? I think a lot of people are choosing to counteract it with sweetness. Well, I think that's inherently incorrect and so developing that to to bring it. So you're actually enhancing what's there versus masking.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 32:01

What's? There was a stipulation. I didn't want bong water.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:08

I want to like dive in a little bit on this, on this wine concept of, like, the woman after work pouring the glass, because, um, we look at lots of beverages on the show, we talked to lots of beverage people and, and, um, there's so much focus on the can and I always picture people drinking it straight from the can and there's all the branding on the can and then you kind of miss the color, you miss what the, what the product looks like and, um, you're inspiring me and making me think huh, should I be pouring this stuff into a glass so that I can see it? How do you envision people drinking the product out of the can, pouring it over a glass, over ice? What is the vision? Is it a choose your own adventure?

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 32:50

Essentially it is. There's two sides to this and I'd like to dive into them a little bit. One of them is straight convenience. If you're heading to a barbecue or a baby shower, you should absolutely just drop it into your purse and get out the door and have it in that can, or, after a long day, exactly have it from that can if that's what you want. And the idea is ease, isn't it? And I like that and that's there. But we need to go beyond that, especially if we're trying to say this is a competitor or an alternative to alcohol.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 33:22

I think that there is an experience, and you know, from really reducing alcohol in my life.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 33:27

The part that I missed the most was walking up to a bar and getting a beautiful drink, and there's something about that that just feels special and feels really enticing and you feel really good about it. You can envision that. You know that bartender using the juices and mixing the things and presenting it to you. Well, you shouldn't have to lose that just by having an item, and so that's what Hippie Water is intended to be. That's why you know our garden party is peach with lemon and ginger. It's not just peach, it's meant to truly be a mixed cocktail for you to enhance your moment, and so I highly, I highly encourage you to to pour it in a glass and also, like rim the glass, throw something there. If you ever have Island getaway, I always rim the glass with tajin and stick a cucumber in there, and all of a sudden you're like oh, I'm not missing out anymore. I think that's the thing is in this space people feel like they're missing out, and we're here to not let that be the case anymore.

Ben Larson: 34:26

Taylor, I love how intentional you've been with it and they truly are great. I should know We've tried tons of beverages and it is always at the top of the list when we're recommending this category, which I didn't realize.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 34:40

It had 15 juice and so it's like it's seltzer plus right and yeah, we're actually considered if we're, if we're going off of terms of my old word world, we are a sparkling juice beverage, we're not a seltzer sparkling juice beverage.

Ben Larson: 34:56

okay, so let's dig into that that a little bit like you weren't first to market, and what I'm hearing is that you knew who and how to build this product. But while you're doing that, was it intimidating seeing how much competition was flooding the space and was trying to get on the shelves of Total Wine and you guys somehow nailed it. But was it because you identified a gap or was it just that because you were so intentional about building for your customer?

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 35:25

I'm glad you're asking this. I think that maybe a lot of people are intimidated with the competition out there, but I was going something's here. I'm not here to be the first, but I am here to be the best, and that's kind of how Hippie Water is really positioning itself. I don't want to be the first. I wouldn't want our team to be the first, because if you're the first to lead, you're the first to bleed, and inherently, I'm not here to do that. However, I am here to make it better and I am here to ensure that this is being positioned.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 35:55

I mean truly choosing to go into this world. It is true, I am risking my career. I came from the largest brands and this is not what they would inherently want me to be working on, but knowing that, then it's got to be worth it, and so it's making it worth it. And there's also a thing, too, in finding market gaps. It is not about being first. It's simply seeing what is available and seeing what's not being met yet and then adding it. I never want to say that I'm the person who's the first to come here, because I'm not. However, I think that as this grows, we'll get more people from different professions, building this up, and that's what we're trying to do.

Ben Larson: 36:38

Yeah, I love that. The result is there. Right, you mentioned 11 states, seven months, that's very fast. And so let's talk about that journey for you guys a little bit. That's a rapid growth. You know, you're building the plane as it is, it's flying, keeping the wheels on the car as it's rolling, whatever you want metaphor you want to use, I can only imagine and you're doing it with four co-founders. Yeah, How's the last seven months been?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 37:08

Honestly, yeah, I mean it's been so fun, it's been really exciting. Of course, it's been scary and work and it's been all the things. I think when we initially launched, we did not expect to be in total wine that early. I mean that was a dream. We were thinking, okay, six, seven months, maybe a year, realistically, before we get to that stage. We were, we were, you know, starting D to C and kind of navigating honestly who our personas were, and that was really really unexpected. We got a contact. We were so lucky. We were like maybe they'll like it, maybe they'll put it into one store. They tried it and they wanted to launch in three states, not just three stores. Problem to have. But now, how do we fulfill this order? And I'm really proud of our team for making it happen.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 38:10

And I think something that I wanted to mention about Taylor is, while she might have come from a different industry, she's so prepared with the documentation and things that she knows that we need to meet and things that she wants to meet. And so, taylor, I just want to say I'm so thankful that you are so prepared as well, because we want to create this safe space for our consumer and we know that our product meets that and surpasses that. And I think going into a place like Total Wine with that confidence and knowing that our product meets those standards is really important. So as much as we were scared, in the best ways we knew that our product would hold its own. We just need people to try it, and I think that's always been our thing is like meeting the demand that we were not expecting to come so quickly with also this determination to make it happen. We're not worried about our product, we're worried about getting it into your hands.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 39:13

And Taylor was mentioning kind of digging deep into certain states, like that is definitely something that we are looking for. That is definitely something that we are looking for as much as we are in 11 states in seven months. We also want to make sure that we are not stretching ourselves too thin. We want to really amplify and foster those relationships in the states that hippie water is really resonating with and, of course, with legislation. That has become a challenge depending on the state. But we are, we're making sure that we're. We're doing our part.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 39:44

I think just early on it was, it was kind of just sidestepping and I think we made a promise to ourselves that we will continue to just do everything that we can to be ready to adapt, no matter what comes our way.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 39:59

And I think, knowing the industry and how rapidly it changes and how there might be curveballs thrown when you're not expecting them, I think it's important to always be ready for those things as best as we can. And Taylor, you know Taylor studied in food law before she went into her space, and so I think having somebody like her who is so well versed in all sides of the space really make a difference coming into an industry like this, especially one that's still being developed. So I really feel like as much as we have done a lot in our seven months, we've also done as much as we can to be prepared for it, and that luck is always opportunity needs a hard work, and so I think that we were just kind of at the right place at the right time, with the right tool set to grow this quickly.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 40:51

One of the things that seems like you are hinting at is is the difference between States when it comes to policy and regulations, and you're talking about preparation. I'm hearing like compliance and what are the rules and how do we, how do we navigate them? And? And navigating rules is one of the key unlocks when you're operating in the cannabinoid space. Rules is one of the key unlocks when you're operating in the cannabinoid space, and it's changing a lot on the hemp beverage side.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 41:19

Whereas people used to talk about it being unregulated, now more and more there are state by state regulations and, whereas you can still manufacture in one place and there's interstate commerce allowed different than you know an adult use or medical marijuana space where you have to set up a supply chain in every state, you still might have to have different unique packaging for certain markets, or there might be different potency restrictions or ingredient prohibitions that have nothing to do with cannabis in certain states that aren't in other states. I'm wondering if you can help us shed some light on how you think about those things, especially as it relates to go to market Like are you looking at the states that your existing packaging works for and focusing on those, or are you designing packaging specifically for states that you want to be in because you see the market opportunity so big. I think this is a constant that lots of brands are thinking about.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 42:20

So shedding light on your process would be great. Yeah, I want Taylor to answer this question mainly, but one thing that I just did want to say with that really quick is that we've already experienced that. I mean, we were redesigning a can for California, about to launch in Total Wine in California and it was like, oh well, can't do that anymore, and so it is an example of that in the industry that all brands have to be aware of. Please, taylor can definitely answer this question better than me.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 42:46

Yeah, well, I think there's a few topics that we're covering here, and in my background I've not only developed products for international work or for domestic work, but also international work, so because of that, I've had the opportunity to learn what it's like to have certain restrictions and to read those food laws and to see what's compliant and what's not, and that's been nimble. Before, though, it was on a much grander scale. So it's interesting. I think a lot of people start in this space and they grow with it. Versus, I went from something so large to actually downscaling when it came to creating hippie water will say I'm surprised by some of the restrictions in this space, as I think a lot of people are, but, that being said, I feel very familiar with that being the case, and it's not as much of a shock, I think, for our team because of that. We're a little bit desensitized, but that also means being very strategic in our raw materials, including our packaging right, and so if a state decides you need to have X logo, well, that's why we've made certain packaging decisions, so we can be nimble and really facing those moments and being very mindful and knowledgeable as much as we can on the ever-changing regulations and then when it comes to the question of how does that affect the states that we are targeting. So I would say there's kind of two lenses with that.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 44:17

We didn't expect to be in 11 states this early. That came to a surprise with us. However, I think that there can be some brands who are choosing to go. I want the widest scope possible, I want to spread myself out and just be everywhere all at once. Well, instead we're actually going. Let's target states at a time. Let's take this whole whale and chew it in bites, right? So instead of although we are in 11 states, we're going to focus on certain states that we think will really drive the initiative and build that way. So, instead of spreading thin, we're going to be very localized and dig deeper, really build those market spaces and really cater those and nurture those opportunities and then continue to spread as it goes.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 45:05

Yeah, if in those states regulation changes, at least we know we have a strong foundation of consumers and so if we do have to change our product, it's going to be worth it, not just experimenting with a state that we hope it'll stick in.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 45:19

I guess one thing I should mention too is there's a lot of new laws we're seeing with Florida about color additives. I don't, I don't believe it was about flavors. I believe the focus was really on color additives, also coming from the space. It's learning how to understand that and thus have an argument. So one for example and maybe this will help other people out in the space One of those color additives was listed as fruit juice. Well, okay. Then people go oh no, I'm screwed. Well, no, because instead you can have the argument of this isn't here to be a color additive, this is here to be an ingredient, and you go okay. So it's learning how to read that and not be completely shocked and concerned and adjust. But luckily, not having any artificial sweeteners or colors or flavors is also something that I highly recommend. If the states are choosing to get that honed in on the ingredients yeah. If the states are choosing to get that honed in on the ingredients, yeah.

Ben Larson: 46:14

Yeah, this industry is a wild ride with new rules dropping every week, every day. I want to kind of go towards a little bit more of the personal side. You know, anna Rae and I always like to dive into kind of the founder journey and the psychology behind it all. Y'all are in kind of a unique position, working with your partners as partners in this particular case. And I remember when I used to work with a lot of startups and I would run into like a couple founder couple and it would always be in my head we're like this either going to work out great or it's going to end really badly yeah, yeah totally fair.

Ben Larson: 47:02

Uh, maybe you know, hudson, alex, earmuffs, how has it been? Like it's, it's just, yeah, it's like it's double for you guys. Um, yeah, how do you manage?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 47:12

this like you, it must be all encompassing well, yeah, because I mean, at the end of the day, we're breaking multiple rules. It's like, don't get into bed with friends and family while we're doing both of those things. Um, and I, I agree with you it could either be really great or really bad. Um, I think there's a couple of things that set us apart, which is just an easy one. Um, mainly, we're all in different spaces, we're all cohesive, but we all own our different space, and so I think we've always, from day one, really respected each other and knowing, okay, this is Taylor's space and she's an expert in this space and she's here for that purpose. It's not challenged, it's welcomed. And I feel that way about Alex and Hudson. You know they have their fields, their experts in their own separate fields, and so, instead of you know, of course, healthy challenges on perspectives, but like, instead of it being a competition in any way, it's more of like a thank goodness we have somebody that we trust in each field. And I think that's at least from, in my opinion, the way that I've looked at each one of our founders, including myself. You know it's like how can I best utilize my experience and my relationships and bring that together?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 48:24

I would also say I think Taylor and Alex and Hudson and myself have been in our relationships for a really long time. We've known each other for a really long time and, taylor, I can let you speak on this, but I know, for Hudson and I we started as friends, not just love interests. We've known each other for so long and I think, speaking on our marriage, it's like we prioritize communication and so this is just an extra layer. We are used to spending, you know, almost 24 hours a day together, just based on working from home and raising our son, and, and so that time together wasn't a shock. It wasn't like, oh, we're leaving our our own jobs and now we're coming together and we've never spent this much time together. We are, we are already used to spending that much time together, and now it's just using, um, our industries, uh, in in a different way than we were before. So I don't think that it was a huge adjustment.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 49:20

And then I would say the biggest adjustment is then going into business with friends. It's like, oh, okay, we don't turn that off at any point. It's like we're still friends, so it's like we don't clock out, and I think that's the adjustment. It's like we are all in it every single day, working on hippie water, and then it's like, oh, we're also talking about kind of bullshit that has happening in our lives and Hendrix is like running across the screen and only a diaper and you just kind of you have a different perspective on business because you are so involved with each other, involved with each other, and I think businesses fail with this type of dynamic when you stop being transparent and open with each other.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 50:02

So I think as long as that line of communication is open and you are open about your struggles and your wins with each other and in their department one with each other and in their department I think that is is the best and highest standard you can have. Because if everybody's communication is good and we are all understanding each other and we are addressing the good, the bad and the ugly in a way that is safe and it's a safe space, I think you'll be fine. I think you'll be able to work through all of those problems and those challenges that are inevitable as your business grows. Bigger things come along better and worse, and if you can talk about it and you can handle it as friends and business partners, I think that's the only way forward, but please, taylor, speak on that.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 50:48

I mean, you absolutely laid it out. I would say the biggest things are communication. We have always been 110% honest with each other, so one that always helps. But I would say the biggest thing in what has helped make the business so successful is that we have positive assumptions about each other and rightfully challenge each other at the same time, I think, really maintaining that.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 51:12

And, and the best part is, you know, sasha and I, this is our first business together and so, at the same time that it is playing adults, it's also playing well, if we were Barbies, like what kind of company would we want? What kind of, what kind of people would we want? We'd want that happiness, we'd want that positivity. And so by working together and clearly showing that that, like this, this is authentically us and you're recording, if you like we, we just talk to each other all the time and we just we get along. We have the same views and morals and the same desires to build a female-led company, and to me, that's the answer of everything beyond the communication and all that is just continuing to know that we always assume the best of ourselves, but we also have to continue to challenge ourselves and learn together along the way and that just feels really good because I know that every day, even after this long, I hang up the phone and we still go.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 52:11

Okay, love you, bye and that's just our world and it feels amazing.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 52:16

I also wanted to highlight it's really important when we're bringing new people onto the team to keep that structure. So our employee, saisha, is a force of nature. She is incredible and shout out to her Her birthday was yesterday, but I think that that that continues with hires. You know it's important. Obviously, business is important, that structure is important, but that line of communication should be the same in lots of ways. Just because we are a C-suite doesn't mean that you can't come to us with complaints and with accomplishments and everything. Let's celebrate together, let's communicate together, let's work out problems together and let's keep a good culture. And that level of respect should flow throughout the company. And we can be silly and serious at the same time and I think that's really important as well, this ethos.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 53:10

it's the first time, I think, that we've ever talked about Barbies on the show and Barbie was mentioned twice, both as Barbie Pink, but then Taylor, you just said, if we were Barbies, what would our business be like? And I just love that so much. It's so fun and you guys are Barbies, you're winning at it. It's been a real pleasure getting to hear this story and, I think, just shed some light on friends really trying to have a big vision and do something exciting in THC beverage. So we feel very grateful for everything that you've shared and I know our listeners have enjoyed it. It's time for our last call, so I'm hoping that you can share a final message with our listeners some advice, a call to action, a closing thought what do you want to leave them with today?

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 53:59

I guess I could start. I think my last call is really that you know, building a business is hard. It should never be taken as something that is easily attainable. The founder life is so difficult and I think, just remembering that you have it all within you, you shouldn't be the smartest person in the room. So bring on team members that you know are experts in their field, but believe that your vision is right and make sure that you are paying attention to everything new coming your way, whether it's cannabis or not. Know that you can do it, that you have it in you, and find the resources to fill the spaces where you know that you are lacking. And if you have that combination, you will always find that market gap. You will always find what's next and what's new. You're ready to innovate, you're ready to adapt, but at the end of the day, believe in yourself and believe that you can do it, because if you don't, you'll fail. And please go to my hippie water on Instagram at hippiewatercom. Follow along, and we can't wait to be in every state.

Taylor Eileen Sewell: 55:07

Yeah, I guess that if I could think of my last call, you know if I, if I was talking to the myself five years ago, I never thought I would be here. I never thought I could do it. So I guess, if I could say anything, it's if you are a creator and you have an opportunity to create something that you wish was in the world. I hope you do it and I think that's I hope you do it, because is the choice of cannabis easy? No, but do I really actually believe how incredible this sector is? Yes, or I wouldn't be here. So cheers to anyone who's even willing to give it a shot. And if anyone also wants to know how to develop a product, just pretend it's you, pretend it's as important as you, and then you're going to make something really great.

Ben Larson: 55:58

I love it. I love it, Taylor Sasha. Thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation and just a lot of incredible nuggets about the journey of launching beverages in the space. So thank you, Thank you for spending the last hour with us.

Sasha Pieterse Sheaffer: 56:12

Thank you so much for having us Absolutely, and thank you, thank you for spending the last hour with us. Thank you so much for having us Absolutely, and thank you for your questions too. I love your questions, they were great, such a good time. You two are awesome.

Ben Larson: 56:21

All right, anna Rae, we got to go crack open some hippie waters.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 56:25

I'm ready. It's the morning, but it's all good.

Ben Larson: 56:29

I'm an hour ahead of you. It's almost time hour ahead of you. It's almost time. All right, everyone, what do you think? Another great episode in the bag. Keep the conversation going. We got a lot of great comments in the middle of the show. Uh, engage with us. Let us know what you think, any questions that you might have, let us know who you want to see on the show, what topics we should cover next. Please like, subscribe, share, do all the things. We got a lot of exciting news coming up in in the not too distant future. We'll be sharing that with you. This is your cliffhanger, with no details, but it'll be coming soon. Thank you to our teams at virtosa, wolf meyer, our amazing producer, eric rosetti. Thank you for keeping this show running until next time. Folks, stay curious, stay informed and keep your spirits high. That's the show.