AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:05

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Ben Larson: 0:53

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 77. 77. That's a big number Of high spirits. I'm Ben Larson, and today I am but a ship without its rudder.

Ben Larson: 1:18

Anna Rae no, anna Rae is not with me today. She is sick. Anna, we are recording on Thursday, february 27, 2025. And we do have a great show for you, albeit without my co-host, and I think I'm probably going to jump right in today. Nra usually covers the news. I merely provide color commentary. Next week, we have the Cannabis Business News Roundup, so please tune in for that. But being that we'll skip the news, I'm going to get right into my intro for our amazing guest. Today we have Kate Miller, the CEO and co-founder of Miss Grass, and we're going to go through her journey, her personal journey from the East Coast to the West Coast and back to the East Coast, and similarly, her journey with Ms Grass, who started in hemp, went to regulated cannabis and may or may not be finding its way back in hemp. So, without further ado, let me introduce to you Kate Miller. Kate, welcome to the show.

Kate Miller: 2:21

Hey Ben, Thanks for having me.

Ben Larson: 2:23

Yeah, it's so good to see you. How is everything out there on the East Coast?

Kate Miller: 2:27

Cold, but excellent. Otherwise how about you?

Ben Larson: 2:30

Oh, cold, not cold. West Coast is beautiful. We are wondering if this is real spring or fake spring, but I think the Bay Area is expecting sunshine and 70 degrees today.

Kate Miller: 2:44

That's so nice. Oh well, I miss Anna Rae. Anna Rae, if you're watching hopefully you're not and resting, but I hope you feel better.

Ben Larson: 2:51

She better be watching. We need the numbers, All right? Well, let's jump right in For our listeners who don't know, just give us a little bit of an overview of what Miss Grass is and you know I gave a little bit of an introduction, I guess, about how you started in hemp, so maybe explain how the marketplace has evolved into the brand that is Miss Grass.

Kate Miller: 3:19

Yeah.

Kate Miller: 3:20

So Miss Grass is a brand really rooted in community in the cannabis space.

Kate Miller: 3:26

We launched in January of 2018, so basically seven years ago a little bit over and we have been pretty relentlessly obsessed with our community. So we started off as an e-com marketplace. Technically, the business model was a contextual commerce platform where we had a hemp marketplace selling all third-party hemp-derived cannabinoid and cannabis accessory brands and an online magazine where we really leveraged content and events to not only bring people into our online site and convert them through our marketplace into our online site and convert them through our marketplace, but really the intention of that was to scale a nationwide community, collect a ton of first party data and like truly understanding who our community is, what they're consuming, why they're consuming it, when they're consuming it, and using all of that to ultimately inform what became our first product, which was roughly two years post-launching the brand. In September of 2020, we launched Miss Grass Minis mini packs of pre-rolled joints and have since expanded flower and pre-roll in the flower and pre-roll category in the state regulated channels, so are currently operational in seven markets.

Ben Larson: 4:42

Wow, all right. Well, there's a lot there. We're going to dig into all of that, and so I'm going to kind of rewind us back to the beginning and to 2018, launching a hemp marketplace. Give us a little bit of an idea of what the landscape looked like back then. Back then, I'm talking about as if it was decades ago. But hey, in the cannabis and hemp industry, it is like decades ago.

Kate Miller: 5:05

Yeah, it feels, that way.

Ben Larson: 5:07

Yeah, what was the landscape like? How competitive was it? Was it new to kind of build a branded marketplace? I guess?

Kate Miller: 5:15

Yeah, well, one. I think our approach to building brand was new for the space, not new for CPG was new for the space, not new for CPG, but the approach of building and scaling community first, before launching product. We didn't see that yet in the cannabis space. We saw a lot of brands launching product and then turning their attention to focus on building a community and brand loyalty around that product. And, as you know, since this market is very, this industry is very you know, each state is its own market it becomes really challenging to, once you start entering on the product side, to really focus on building a national and global brand presence and community. So that's why we entered the way that we did.

Kate Miller: 6:06

At that time, the 2018 Farm Bill had just passed. January of 2018 also was the month that California flipped and had its first adult use sale of cannabis. So I would say right place, right time. I know people have differing opinions on what luck is, but I would say we got lucky that we launched at that moment. Unfortunately, I would say it was also kind of the height of the Me Too movement, which, as female founders, we also benefited from that. So there was a lot of kind of factors that at that time we got a ton of press which drove a lot of early traction and community to our site which converted for us.

Kate Miller: 6:57

Also at that time there were you know it was the CBD craze. Was was happening and there were a lot of brands launching CBD products. However, there wasn't a lot of inventory while still getting really healthy margins for a dropship business, which is what it was early days. It evolved as the business grew and we did start holding inventory but ultimately we sunsetted that marketplace and I should say now, looking back, I could have been selling Delta 9, thc, m-derived products that whole time. I didn't realize that then, but now we sunsetted that when we launched our product At that time we were still such a small team and we weren't seeing as many synergies from having both the marketplace and focusing on growing and scaling B2B sales with our products into dispensaries like to use.

Ben Larson: 8:27

What does community mean to you and how did you build community around this platform, around the products? Because I think it's an important strategy for brands to understand, especially when they're limited on capital. Because, with the beverage category that is exploding right now, there's arguably hundreds of brands hitting the market, and the big question is Now there's arguably hundreds of brands hitting the market and the big question is who's building a long-lasting brand, a brand that will persist over time and without bucket loads of cash, it's really hard to build that kind of ubiquitous brand, and so a way to kind of get around that is to build a community, and I'm curious, like some of the things that you did with Miss Grass, to be able to do that.

Kate Miller: 9:06

Yeah. So one like I think we also in this industry not only throw the term community around a lot, not just in our industry but other CPG and other industries, but also even the word brand, I've noticed in this space kind of means something different to operators and I've heard a lot, oh, they have a beautiful brand. And this space kind of means something different to operators and I've heard a lot, oh, they have a beautiful brand. And when you kind of double click into what someone means by that, they're talking about branding, like they're talking about the visual identity of a brand and that's one element of it and an important element. Don't get me wrong.

Kate Miller: 9:44

But you know that's not just it for us, and when I say and when we've always believed that, like brand equity will drive long term value in this industry, as it does in any CPG space, like it goes far beyond just the visual identity world of the brand For us, like we really measured that a lot by our community size, email being a platform that we were really focused on, especially early days and still today, like there were so many restrictions on what we could do on social channels and different platforms, and email felt like this channel that we can like let our hair down and like say what we want and connect directly with our community.

Ben Larson: 10:33

So for us that has been a really important community channel for us from, for us from day one, email I just wanted to highlight that because, like, email is like the oldest of quote unquote communities for these channels and probably one that we're neglecting a bit, and so, yeah, dig into that a little bit.

Kate Miller: 10:54

It's been a really important channel and of course in the DDC world is a really important conversion channel.

Kate Miller: 11:01

Now we don't see as much conversion on our email, or at least direct conversion, because we don't have, you know, it's not connected to POS at dispensary so we actually don't have that data. But as we do launch our D2C again, that'll become a really important channel for us. But going back to your question on kind of like what we did at the beginning and what we still do, early days our site was a was a big community converter to us, meaning like people would go to our site, there would be email pop ups, there was like age gated content that we had on our site to garner and capture someone's email and put them through our email flows and our journeys and our email journey to kind of connect further with our community. We've done probably close to 100 events in the lifetime of Miss Grass with over 20,000 people attending our events. Obviously the RSVPs you capture email that way and by RSVPing they're opting in to receive marketing communication from us. That also was a big driver for us in scaling our community list.

Ben Larson: 12:20

Okay, all right, and now we're going to kind of transition to that sunsetting moment where you've observed the marketplace, you've decided to launch your own branded products, but you weren't going to launch it on your own site, nor were you going to launch it in hemp, so you decided to launch many pre-rolls in the regulated market. What drove that jump Like? You're collecting all this data, you're building this community.

Kate Miller: 12:49

What told you like, this was the product and this was the channel Our community told us. So I would say, like, from the very beginning, that was always the play of like launch, collect a ton of data, including purchasing data, which we had from understanding what our community was buying from third-party brands at that time, but essentially use that to inform what would become a Miss Grass product line. So that was always the play, I'd say. If you looked at our first investor deck, that whole journey was going to take six months and that journey took two years. So maybe the timelines weren't exactly planned out, but the journey was. And Again, the beauty of having that first-person relationship with our community and our customer base was we really used that to inform what became the Mistgrass Minis and our other product offerings. Now, to give you an example, when we were developing our first product, we put out a, a survey to our community.

Kate Miller: 13:53

Overnight, 7500 people of from our list replied it was a pretty like detailed survey wasn't just a like that's a great return.

Ben Larson: 14:04

We've done surveys before.

Kate Miller: 14:05

They don't come back in those quantities there was, of course, incentives around like filling in the survey and you, you know, getting them in. But yes, like and that's what the beauty to of this community, it's like a true, authentic connection with the brand and the lifestyle and what we all represent. Like it's a two way community. It's not just this brand, like pushing out marketing you know jargon and 20 percent off emails to them, it's, it's truly adding value. But going back to that survey, like we asked a lot of questions in that survey, including, like their form factor preference. The minis, for instance, was informed by that survey. We, we, a lot of our community members mentioned that they don't get through a full one gram joint in one sitting. So that, ultimately, is what informed the point four. It also informed we asked a lot about occasion, like when they were consuming what, and that helped inform the terpene profiles that we look for, which ultimately elicit the effect that our community wanted for our fast times, quiet times and all times products.

Ben Larson: 15:21

Wow, I love that customer and having direct access to their purchasing patterns and all this kind of stuff too. It's still being the same customer, same community and having connection to them, but losing a little bit of or a lot bit of, the visibility of the purchasing and the sell-through because of everything that we've discussed on the show about the challenges of dealing with the regulated market and retail. How did you overcome that? What were some of the tools or tactics that you've used, or probably continue to use, to create that bridge and really leverage the connection to the community that you have?

Kate Miller: 16:06

Yeah. So you know we still engage with our owned community channels social site and email just like we did. There's less, you know, conversion focused emails driving people to our D2C site now, but there still are. You know, for about 80% of our email lists we have zip codes. So, to give you an example, now we'll work with our retail partners. We'll essentially align with them on a sales strategy and partnership that includes a promotional calendar and programming for the next quarter Not everyone's program out a quarter in advance, but let's just say the ones are and then, on larger occasions, we'll actually use our email list and segment around their doors to push out on our channel some of the promotions and partnerships that we're running with the retailers. Unfortunately, though, we don't have then the true conversion data from that, but a lot of it too, is optically.

Kate Miller: 17:13

Our retail partners are super jazzed that we're able to directly communicate with the Miss Grass community and drive them to their doors.

Kate Miller: 17:23

It's gone a long way for us.

Kate Miller: 17:25

Further, we right now program out, kind of like every other month, brand-led campaigns that then have extensions into retail.

Kate Miller: 17:37

So, to give you a in real time example, we have a Women's Month campaign for all of March that really centers on like celebrating the femininity of this plant being a female plant, and celebrating the woman in cannabis. That includes a whole host of assets that we provide to our retail partners, including, like one of our email segments is are just straight going to buyers and marketing marketing execs in retail doors so that we, instead of our sales manager needing to email every single door, we'll, through our email segment, blast out these campaigns and the campaign assets, including like the 20% off or if it is tied to a promotion, directly to their inboxes so that they, on a regular basis, are getting like branded assets from Miss Grass that they can very easily plug into like their own channels digital menu, banners, email, sms. And then we also program that those messaging it's not promo led but a similar thematic messaging on our brand channel, so that there is this kind of like holistic campaign and interactions with our community across every single brand touchpoint, across every retailer that carries miss grass.

Ben Larson: 18:55

Not everyone participates in them, but for the most part, retailers our social site and email I'm curious uh, you know something that we talk about internally a lot is just creating the linkage to the customer through the packaging, like finding ways to encourage them to like quote-unquote, click through. You know whether it's a qr code or url. Have you, have you tried any of these tactics, like whether it's like your, your own, like design or a third party, because I've seen people that you know apply stickers, that kind of thing. Does any of it work? Have you had any success with that?

Kate Miller: 19:31

I. I don't want to throw out the hat and say like no, but we need to figure that out. I do think there's a big opportunity there, like when I think of how many minis we sold last year, and even if we can convert five, two to 5% of those mini purchases into emails and not only is that like a community member, that's a true, like customer email that we are capturing Like that would be amazing. We did do things like our minis come in exterior CR bags and we've put inserts into that CR bag, including a QR code for people and like a CTA for people to sign up to our email. We just didn't see conversion from that. However, I think we could probably test it out with like a stronger CTA or incentive or things like that. Similarly, we have retail displays, like these table tents that we put up in retail doors, those that allow us that has a QR code to sign up for our email. But, same thing, we haven't seen a ton of conversion from that.

Ben Larson: 20:42

I was interested in as a result of the pandemic was the normalization of QR codes. I was very like anti QR code. I even had some ideas like crazy entrepreneurial ideas in the past that popped in my head about oh, it's like we could put QR codes in art galleries and people could use them and then, like you know, really understand the whole, like history of that art piece and the artist. Anyways, I'm rambling.

Kate Miller: 21:13

That's, I'm sure, happening now in our gallery.

Ben Larson: 21:16

I'm sure I'm sure, it's totally a thing. I totally missed that. It's okay, I'm happy with what I'm doing. But yeah, I was like I was thinking that maybe this would be the catalyst for it working on projects on products, right, and, and I just don't think it.

Kate Miller: 21:31

It it has translated like people using it for menus at restaurant hasn't translated to people opting to do it products I think the next thing we want to test out is, um, like using that to onboard them to a loyalty program. And there's a brand, um, black Buffalo. It's not a cannabis brand. They sell, um, they're in the tobacco space or alternative tobacco space. Um, and they, um, they, I think they this is powered by Yopo, but it they consumers who purchase their uh tins in, let's say, a seven 11.

Kate Miller: 22:12

On the packaging itself there's a call to action of like scan your receipt or something and receive $5 back. So customers and they get great conversion from this. To my understanding, Customers scan, they upload their receipt. There's a platform that all handles this. That customer gets $5 back and then also, is then like, kind of subscribe to a loyalty program where, like, you can actually start earning rewards, which is obviously a lot easier on a DTC platform, but start earning rewards for buying per, for buying product in retail, and, to my understanding, they've seen a good amount of conversion from that.

Ben Larson: 22:54

Oh, that's great, that's great.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 22:56

Okay.

Kate Miller: 22:57

Everyone loves to get money back, yeah.

Ben Larson: 23:02

As a geek I just told it's like trying to break this code is such an interesting challenge. Okay, I want to get a little bit more into just kind of how the business has has scaled. You know, obviously you started in a single state, you started in California, right?

Kate Miller: 23:18

Correct.

Ben Larson: 23:19

Okay, so that was your first state. You're now in seven, which is a lot. Tell us a little bit about the second state and so on, and how you strategically chose, like, where you were going to go next, because every market seems very different. And the next set of questions I can ask you is about, like, how you build partnerships and the sophistication of each individual supply chain, because that's something that's near and dear to my heart. But, yeah, like, how did you choose that second state and then so on and so forth.

Kate Miller: 23:49

After that, Well, I would say the second state was chosen, not in the way that we choose states now, but the second state was definitely a big learning for us. We entered Nevada as our second state, which was the only state that we pulled out of.

Kate Miller: 24:08

So that is probably telling. But ultimately we chose it based on a relationship that I had with an operator who was in the California market, who went to the Nevada market and it was a big operator and the deal made sense where it was a zero working capital deal for us, where the operator would buy our packaging, they cultivate, manufacture and distribute and we get a royalty on gross wholesale. They cultivate, manufacture and distribute and we get a royalty on gross wholesale. So you know a lot of learnings. With all new things, I definitely have a kind of like stricter due diligence, including like what's the financial stability of our supply chain?

Ben Larson: 24:46

partners. That's really tough in this industry.

Kate Miller: 24:48

It's tough but so important to understand that because ultimately it was an expensive lesson and bad debt write off on our books Ultimately how do you find that Like what are?

Ben Larson: 25:03

do you just ask directly and whether you know how transparent they're willing to be? Is that your tell, or is there like a more nuanced way of going about it?

Kate Miller: 25:18

I think like that is definitely one of the questions. But also similar to when you're vetting talent to for your team and you go through reference checks, like similar to that. And as you know, unfortunately or fortunately, I don't know how I how I view it but like there's a small group of cannabis investors who have like funded a lot of these operators. So at this point we kind of are able to ask the right people to like really know the what they're like balance sheets and I like cash and things like that and certain investors are more trustworthy than other investors.

Kate Miller: 25:56

For sure.

Kate Miller: 25:57

So so, yeah, that that was a lesson, though did like we were in the Nevada market for for a bit, so we did gain the like internal muscle on really identifying and refining our state expansion playbook and like our what is go to market look like, as well as like what does launch look like the first three months in a market we consider launch and then what does um it look like after that, which I think the strategies of having a successful launch and the strategies to retain and grow the business post the launch hype is over has evolved for us and is a bit different.

Kate Miller: 26:38

But as it relates to like how we choose states, we have I call it we internally it's labeled the state matrix, but in that state matrix there's like every state listed in a column where the state is, from a regulatory perspective, au medical it's expected to flip next year, whatever it may be, the market size, the number of dispensaries, the population of 21 plus which breaks out to the like number of people per dispensary, and then also the growth rate of the past year, like is it a market that isn't growing?

Kate Miller: 27:16

Is it actually declining? Is it still like super high growth, which is typically when it's like just turning on, and then below that we have kind of like the key operators in said states. There's obviously some states where if you can talk to like five buyers and be in like 70% of the market, and then there's other states, based on the state regulations that you know, cap the number of doors. So there's like hundreds of operators to get to the like 70, 80% of the market and ultimately we look at a like where do we already have a built in community base that, like from day one, we can activate and be successful?

Kate Miller: 27:58

because you have codes Exactly Nice and then be marked that market data that I was talking about we tend to prioritize low to zero working capital states that we can structure deals with operators who are financially stable, have high quality product brand alignment as well, as we look at markets that we feel confident we can get into and get into roughly like 70 to 75% upwards of the doors Mm-hmm.

Ben Larson: 28:32

How do you think about timing of these markets After seeing cycle after cycle, right? You mentioned kind of the exuberance period. Do all the other elements that you just described kind of outweigh that and then you just understand that that is the potentiality of that given market? Or do you try to avoid certain timing when it comes to the newness of a market? Or is first mover advantage a thing?

Kate Miller: 29:00

Yes, it is, I would say, which I wouldn't say that's the case for. We haven't seen that play out with some operators, but as a brand play, we have definitely seen the advantage of getting in some of these market early and capturing market share and being able to maintain that market share. If you look in California probably the most saturated market that there is and you look at the BDS, top 10 brands like many on that list are the brands that were on shelves January 2018 when California flipped, and they were top then and they're still top now. So I do think there's an advantage.

Kate Miller: 29:40

Also, when markets just turn on, there tends to be and this isn't the case for every market, but there tends to be a supply shortage. So there's just like not a ton of flour, not a ton of brands, not a ton of you know things that retailers can purchase. So I don't want to say it's like easier, but the conversation is a lot easier to structure partnerships then than it is when these then, where Michigan is right now, or even where California is, where, hey, like, I'm selling you a pre-roll, but there's also 5000 cheaper pre-rolls on the market, which there are definitely retailers who do do that and aren't just price shopping. It's just a harder sell as these markets are becoming super, super saturated.

Ben Larson: 30:36

What are some of the states, or the state that has you most excited right now, that you're either currently in or planning to enter?

Kate Miller: 30:45

So I'd say two. I am a Jersey girl, so want to position that first and we have been in the New Jersey market for a bit, evolved a lot even in the past couple months. It has. A lot more retailers have come online. We're just starting to see some of the more independent cultivators coming online, which has been great, but that continues to be a really good market for us and one that you know we've. We have a lot of market share in the pre-roll category there and, um, our brand really resonates with our community and consumers. And then the second state I'd I'd call out is our newest state, um, missouri, which we just launched at the beginning of this market this year, and it has one like the. The cannabis market there has been like so welcoming and incredible, and they have one of the best trade organizations, in my opinion, in all yeah yeah mokan, um.

Kate Miller: 32:01

So it's been a really, really great state and so far it's it's also been been financially a great state for us as well.

Ben Larson: 32:11

That's cool. We had Seth Yakutan on the show a few weeks back and he was saying that Missouri was the bellwether for sentiment this year. How things went in Missouri was a signal of how things were going to go. So a big consideration in entering new states, or just operating in states, is the presence of, or lack thereof of, MSOs. And, as an independent brand that is multi-state operating, how do you think about MSOs? Are they partners? Are they the enemy? You can plead the fifth, it's up to you.

Kate Miller: 32:44

No, I'll touch on it and I would say some MSOs are even our supply chain partners, not all not in every state.

Kate Miller: 32:51

We work with some independents, we work with some MSOs, but I would say we have great relationships on the retail side with MSOs. And further, I would say listen, I understand why there is a strong narrative in this space against MSOs and against what MSOs, like big cannabis, stands for, which, um, you know, I think we've seen in a lot of cases that can mean an inequitable industry, like not supporting those who have been building this market long before it was legal, um, people who are, like you know, trying to shape regulations in a way that is super self-serving and not greater for the larger space and the larger consumer. So, all that being said, I understand and I can very much rally behind that message. However, I would also say that it's not the case for everyone. Additionally, there's been a lot of people that are working at MSOs that, like, have just such a strong connection and passion to this plant that, like, we can't like.

Kate Miller: 34:02

In my opinion, I see an MSO as like it's people, not not like the whole thing.

Kate Miller: 34:09

And then, further, I would say it's been a great partnership for us and I'm going to be super transparent that we wouldn't be where we are today without some of our MSO partners, or I should say we would have had to raise a lot more capital than to get to where we are today without some of our MSOs partners who had a stronger at the time, like you know, more money to essentially front all of the working capital for us to enter and scale into these markets.

Kate Miller: 34:45

So I do feel like the like coming together of the independents and MSOs and, granted, the market has changed a lot, and I think there's a lot about the MSO business model today, with where their balance sheets sit and where the debt maturity of everything coming up, that is really scary, up, that is really scary. But I do think, without the this is not the right word like, not to like, take advantage of them. But I think there's a way that everyone kind of like, yeah, like, leverage other people's resources to continue to grow as an independent brand and it's mutually beneficial because what MSOs do not have I know some of them would not say this, but like they're not brand builders, like they just are not.

Ben Larson: 35:37

Some of them need to be told a little bit more emphatically.

Kate Miller: 35:42

Um. So I think that at least for us, like it has some of the relationships has definitely felt mutually beneficial.

Ben Larson: 35:52

Have you ever considered a career in politics? Because that was a very diplomatic answer that you gave no, thank you.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 36:01

All right, Well, speaking of markets and you mentioned it a little bit earlier.

Ben Larson: 36:04

Speaking of markets and you mentioned it a little bit earlier you know the hemp marketplace where you started has evolved over time and it's a burgeoning hemp market that seems quite similar to cannabis and how have you been thinking about that, anything you're willing to share about what you're thinking about that. It's just an interesting full circle having launched a hemp marketplace, now operating in multi-state regulated cannabis, and then a lot of stuff happening back where you started.

Kate Miller: 36:37

I think what's happening on the hemp side is the most exciting thing that's been happening in cannabis for years, and obviously everyone has different plays and I understand why some operators who have invested a ton in state licensed operations are struggling to accept what's happening.

Kate Miller: 37:01

Everyone in cannabis right now should be thinking of this plant as the same plant across these, and there's just two. There's just like, different distribution plant channels. So as a brand, it is such an exciting thing that's happening to finally be able to build an omni-channel brand and provide much further and wider access to this plant and our products to a nationwide and hopefully like global community. So, yeah, I mean I see it as super exciting. I think the one thing I would encourage us all is I'm sure you see this, but there just seems to be like quite the divide right now between the two the state licensed and the hemp side and I think I think we all need to kind of see that as an opportunity to come together and like push reform and regulation around this plant holistically forward and not this divide that's happening right now I think the police are coming for you.

Ben Larson: 38:13

They're, they're here, no, I, I, I totally get it. I, you know I'm a big uh, I, I'm a big proponent for not suffering the sunk cost fallacy where you know it's like it is one plant and we have been gifted this opportunity to kind of reassess the game board and how do we create as much progress as quickly as possible and get cannabinoids into the hands of the people? So I'm fully on it with you. I want to poke a little bit back at our friends the msls, because what I do see sometimes is lobbying and and parroting that hemp is killing the cannabis industry at the same time as like those same brands launching like their hemp initiatives. And I just think it's really and really interesting transparent hedge.

Kate Miller: 39:11

But yeah, and I totally understand why an MSO would be freaking. I'm not a curse on this platform, freaking out.

Ben Larson: 39:20

You can do whatever you want on this show Freaking out.

Kate Miller: 39:24

I mean their whole business model and their moat was owning dispensaries, which is the only place that consumers could get access to this plant. Now, all of a sudden, you can order off of websites. You can go into traditional retail channels. Their whole business model is a little bit. I understand why MSOs are freaking out. I don't think it's right what they're doing and like this is what's happening. So kind of like.

Ben Larson: 39:56

So Anna Rae and I were talking about this yesterday before she was sick, and I don't want to steal her thunder. I think we should probably have a whole episode on this. But instead of launching brands and trying to compete as brands as you and I identified, they aren't necessarily great at why not go omni-channel with the retail environment that they do seem to excel at? And so what I haven't seen, you know, are these branded hemp stores, you know, like multi-state, and so it's like florida would be. Florida would be a great opportunity for someone like trulieve to kind of try this omni-channel approach and like have both marketplaces. I don't know, maybe it's a terrible idea.

Kate Miller: 40:37

I'm not a retail owner, um well, I'd say, without calling out who it is, but that exact state and an mso is doing exactly that. So I think, we'll see more of that.

Ben Larson: 40:50

Okay, eric, our producer, I think we have someone to go after for our next guest. We'll talk offline, kate.

Kate Miller: 41:00

Yeah, I can share it with you offline.

Ben Larson: 41:02

Okay, well, we're getting closer to the top of the hour. I want to make sure, like this has been a journey up and down East Coast to West Coast to East Coast, hemp to cannabis to hemp, it's quite the leadership journey. You and I talked about this directly, but also other people that know you have often identified you as in the weeds like CEO that you know has her hands on everything, leaves her mark on everything, and it's very admirable. But it's a lot of work and as the company has grown and scaled, I'm curious if you're willing to share just the benefits that you've seen from that hands-on leader, which I find very valuable, but also maybe some of the downsides in how you're thinking about it today.

Kate Miller: 41:50

Yeah, well, one. I need to just start off with saying that we have an incredible team. So that is it's not obviously just me. There's a team around me that are pushing this forward every single day. We are a very, very small team for the size of our business and, frankly, a bit is due to just our business model. On the state side, it has been mainly through licensing, where our margins are super tight, so we haven't been able to scale the team in proportion to like where our top line sales are right now, which requires us all to wear like 25 hats a day.

Kate Miller: 42:39

I would say my leadership journey has definitely evolved. I am super, super in the weeds, operational, maybe too much, but it feels like it's absolutely necessary and required. One of the things that I'm really trying to implement this year is it feels like we have been on a sprint in a sprint for the first seven and a half years. Building Miss Grass and, as you know, like building a brand and building a business is a marathon, it's not a sprint, and I like want to bring the energy of like the marathon race versus like the like all hands on deck fires, sprint nonstop.

Ben Larson: 43:25

It's a marathon, but you're a kenyan runner damn, when does this change?

Kate Miller: 43:34

I don't have any advice like that's definitely. I haven't gotten there, but I would say that's the intention for the year I love that.

Ben Larson: 43:45

I love that. It's certainly something that I've personally gone through over the last couple years is just like how to strike that balance. And you mentioned the team. You know, building the building the team is the key element of it, right? Like finding those people that you really trust to to be able to emulate you. You know, in the trenches, so to speak. You know in the trenches, so to speak, we were, we were talking, uh, before the show started, and talking about our early morning workout routine, and I think for me, that's been a big part. It's like finding those things that you need to prioritize in your life that do actually take you away from work in a physical sense, right, um, but actually do benefit the work in those times that you're stepping away to take care of yourself or, you know, focus on larger things. You know that needs that time does get backfilled by your team. So I think the natural progression is set and the intention is going to lead you in the right direction.

Kate Miller: 44:42

I hope so. Yeah, it's like one of those things you like know all the steps you need to take but it's hard to sometimes do it.

Ben Larson: 44:56

But, um, yeah, yeah, I'm excited this year. Yeah, at the beginning, at the beginning of the year, we were having our our kind of like kickoff episode and you know, I was denouncing new year's resolutions because I just no one ever sticks to them, right? It's like, oh, I'm gonna do this every day or I'm gonna do this every week, and then like it like it's February and the gym's empty. But the best way to accomplish it is like to set that goal, like that big, hairy, audacious goal for you at the end of the year and just especially as an entrepreneur. You know a lot of us are goal oriented. So it's like you know you want to achieve that in the year.

Ben Larson: 45:21

So it's just that, that persistent thought going towards, like how do I get there? And like what are the things that need to be put in place? So it's like maybe I don't do it every day, maybe I don't do it every week, but as long as I'm working towards that goal, I'm confident that you will get there. So good luck on that journey. I really appreciate all the knowledge allowing me to pry. I was rapid fire questions. I didn't have Anna Rae to interject or say that you were asking too many questions.

Ben Larson: 45:50

So that was nice. Love you anyway, just kidding. But now is your time and it's our last call, and I want you to take this opportunity to, whether it's a shout out, a call to action or just a plug for something that you love, cannabis or otherwise. Kate miller, what is your last call?

Kate Miller: 46:07

I got to plug Miss Grass, obviously. So please follow us, sign up to our email and I would just say there's so much happening in this overall space and there's the hemp side, there's the state side. There doesn't feel like there's going to be much movement on the federal side for the state side and I just I encourage us all to like come together as an industry and like protect the soul of this industry. Like cannabis is way more than a product, it is a movement, it is a culture and, as this market continues to mature, I think that we can build incredible businesses while also continuing to like move that mission and essence forward which has been there from the very beginning.

Ben Larson: 46:58

Amazing, amazing, all right Kate.

Kate Miller: 47:02

Thanks for having me on Ben.

Ben Larson: 47:04

Oh, my God, this has been so great. Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy week. I hope you take some time to yourself as we approach the end of the week and this weekend, but until next time really appreciate you. Thank you for sharing so much with us.

Kate Miller: 47:18

Thank you, Ben.

Ben Larson: 47:20

All right, I'll talk to you soon. All right, everybody, what do you think she is? A wealth of knowledge? We're so lucky that she just opened it up. She gave you. Think she has a wealth of knowledge? We're so lucky that she just opened it up. She gave you the playbook, so you have no excuses. Go out, build community, build your brand, go multi-state, go hemp, go cannabis it's all one plant and share the love.

Ben Larson: 47:40

All right, this has been another, another exciting episode, if I do say this so myself of high spirits. Anna Rae, we miss you. Come save me, please. I can't wait to catch up on the news with you next week. Folks, don't forget to like, subscribe, share, do all the things. We appreciate your support. Please, seriously, if you're still listening, stop pause rate review. It really helps, but our audience is growing and we're excited about bringing more things to you, online, offline, all the places. Huge shout out to our producer, eric Rossetti, our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer, our sponsor, kitprint. Without you guys, we couldn't be doing this any of this every week. Without you, guys, we couldn't be doing this any of this every week. As always, folks, stay curious, stay informed and keep your spirits high Until next time. That's the show.