AnnaRae Grabstein: 0:05

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Ben Larson: 0:54

Hey everybody, welcome to episode 75 of High Spirits. I'm Ben Larson and, as always, I'm joined today by Anna Rae Grabstein. It's Thursday, february 13th 2025, and we're back a couple weeks off. Well, I don't know about off, we were working, just not recording live. Yeah, and I'm alive. I'm standing up For anyone that saw me hobbling around Miami last week. I am mobile, not in my office, and happy about that. Anna Rae, how are you doing? It was good to see you last week. I am mobile, not in my office, I'm happy about that. Anna Rae, how are you doing? It was good to see you last week.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 1:30

Yeah, I'm doing really good. I have been feeling insanely grateful and positive for this kind of whirlwind culture of rebellious entrepreneurs that I get to work with and and building this new category, um, in all kinds of ways. It just keeps changing and, uh, as the years build up, we are still not mature in cannabis, you know. It's just like there's always new stuff, it's so dynamic and um having fun and I'm really, I'm really just feeling grateful all the time. So, yeah, and I'm really excited about today's conversation. I have to say you know, you and I both have been in California cannabis for a long time me even longer than you, but both of us a very long time and we've been doing this podcast for a year and a half and we have not talked about the history of cannabis cultivation and culture and the emerald triangle at all.

Ben Larson: 2:30

Really so, um, it is time I'm pumped to get to talk about it today yeah, yeah, we have uh scott vasterling on from humboldt family farms and uh, just a really cool story. I can't wait to dive in. Let in. Let's just catch up really quick. Where have we been over the last couple of weeks? I got sick, our guest got sick, so we missed the Brett Worley show. We'll have him back on in a few months when we have time to slot him in. And then you and I were traveling about Quick stop for me at WSWA's Access Live that's the Wine and Spirits Wholesalers of America where the hemp beverage crew had quite the showing, and it was just a really cool show to see mainstream alcohol really start to embrace this category Last year. The previous year felt a little bit segregated, kind of like, oh those are the hemp guys, but this time it was taking center stage, so that was really exciting.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 3:27

Yeah, and then we met up shortly thereafter in Miami for Canada DataCon, sponsored by the team over at Delta Emerald Ventures, and that was a really great event. Gosh, I love these small you know 200 people conferences that are curated with folks that really make things happen. You get to have deep conversations, and we both spoke on multiple panels and I also sat through and enjoyed a bunch of panel discussions, which often at conferences you just end up in the hall networking, and this is one of those events where you want to be in the room to hear what people have to say and I learned. I learned things about co-manufacturing and distribution that I hadn't thought of before, and I hope that I also had the opportunity to to suggest new concepts and ideas to people who listened to the things I had to say too, because everyone was just there for it, ready to be engaged.

Ben Larson: 4:33

Yeah, we actually turned one of our panels into a High Spears recording, so hopefully we'll get that up to you guys in the next week or so. It was a fun conversation. We probably one of the more, I want to say, controversial, but at least we had some differing opinions. Where we're talking about the convergence of regulations.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:47

Yeah, totally.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 4:49

And then, outside of all of the travel, there has been an incredible amount of news, and the pace at which the news cycle has been moving, especially at the federal level with this new administration, has just really surprised me.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 5:06

I'm somebody that has embraced a lot of new types of media over the past couple years, in particular podcasts, and I've had a lot of podcasts that I like to listen to, and since Trump took office, it's been a surprise to me how the podcasts can't keep up with the pace of the news cycle. Often, like the podcast, I'll listen to a podcast on a Tuesday that comes out on a Tuesday and it was recorded on a Monday and by the time I listened to it, the news is already stale because things are just moving so quickly. And so there's been an interesting change for me and that I have actually gone back to some traditional media that is more live and of the moment. I've been tuning into NPR and network news and different things to just be able to keep up with what's happening in this exact moment. Has that happened to you?

Ben Larson: 6:00

No, I just completely unplugged. I am glad to hear that npr is still around, because I always have a feeling that that's on the chopping block for some reason. Yeah, it's just, it is overwhelming and I am the type of person where if I watch it, I start to care and it starts to be all consuming and and it's really hard to just manage those news cycles when you're trying to run a business, trying to run a family. So a little bit of self-preservation, of just trying to quiet the noise a little bit.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 6:33

I hear that. Well, some of the things that are coming through the noise into the cannabis business owners and operators' minds have to do with some of the appointees at the federal level. That may or may not get in the way of policy change for us, and so I will bring up a couple and then we'll get into the conversation with Scott. But the Trump administration nominated a new head of the DEA. There was an interim appointee, but now there is. The actual nominee has been put up, and that person is Terry Cole, and he is a longtime law enforcement official who has been Virginia's top public safety person for many years and, unfortunately for us, he's also a anti-cannabis prohibitionist, so who knows what this means to the rescheduling process.

Ben Larson: 7:32

So now we're going to have a good call and a bad call when it comes to cannabis, the old call memo. Yeah, I guess. Yes, totally, that's true.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 7:42

And then, similarly, as a rescheduling update, there was a bill that was introduced to change the language of IRS Code 280E to specifically keep marijuana businesses as written into the law of not being able to write off their general business expenses into the law of not being able to write off off their general business expenses. Even if rescheduling was to happen, unlikely that it will move through Congress in any real way, but it also kind of seems unlikely that rescheduling is moving forward with these, this new batch of leadership. So what once seemed like a sure thing no longer seems like a sure thing. Yeah, nothing's nothing like a sure thing. No longer seems like a sure thing.

Ben Larson: 8:28

Yeah, nothing's a sure thing anymore. And even if it is seemingly supportive or positive in cannabis's favor, like our great state of California, which we'll get into today, just progress is a very difficult thing to find.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 8:46

Yeah, progress is elusive, it's hard and the optimism is important, I think, for all of us just to keep moving. So I'm staying optimistic and then just to highlight a couple other things. There are some big legislative discussions that are going on in many states around the country, but in particular as it relates to hemp-derived THC, texas is in an active legislative session right now and there is a lot of unknowns about what is going to be happening to the market in Texas. And, same thing, there's lots of hope and, I think, also a lot of of fear, because the market there has gotten very large, but without clear frameworks for participation, regulations and things like that. So what happens next is anybody's guess.

Ben Larson: 9:43

There's a lot of conversations in Texas and other states where they are certainly angling to get something done and try to put some of it back into a box. But what we're starting to hear is that there's this broad acceptance of the beverage category and trying to create that space. This broad acceptance of the beverage category and trying to create that space. And I think it's because of the momentum that we're seeing that you know a large part of the alcohol stakeholders want to see this category happen. So we'll see. I think it's going to be a very pivotal year as far as you know, where we find that common ground with mainstream and cannabinoids.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 10:26

Yeah, and then in California, a not dissimilar debate is going on around hemp, which is currently banned, but it's temporary, and what's going to happen next. And even while that's going on, there is a whole bunch of other discussions going on in California about fixing taxes, and there's even industry groups that are being formed to create a new ballot initiative, which I think is based on a desire to fix things in the original ballot initiative that have created a lot of obstacles for the industry. So it doesn't stop. Nothing is set in stone in cannabis. That's part of the fun.

Ben Larson: 11:13

Absolutely. Well, let's dive into California, let's get it going.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 11:17

Let's do it. So our guest today is somebody who knows Humboldt cannabis culture inside and out. Scott Vasterling is the founder of Humboldt Family Farms. It's a company that partners with small family growers to bring craft sun-grown flour to market. He's got a background in corporate leadership from companies like Johnson Johnson and his passion lies in supporting the farming community in Humboldt. And Scott also notably serves as chair of the California Cannabis Advisory Committee, which is a state-sponsored group from the Department of Cannabis Control, where he advocates for policies to protect cultivators and the industry in general. So today, with Scott coming on, we are going to dig into the historical context of cannabis in California, the challenges that farmers have faced, but also how we're turning that around and looking at positioning Sun Grown as a premium product for today's market. So, Scott, welcome to High Spirits. Glad to have you, hey.

Scott Vasterling: 12:20

Scott, wow, look at that.

Ben Larson: 12:25

That is a beautiful backdrop for anyone watching video or not watching video. I guess it's a beautiful redwood forest sitting behind you, so you're truly representing Humboldt.

Scott Vasterling: 12:36

Yeah, thank you. That's probably one of the things that we're most known for the big redwoods and it's a pleasure to live here in Humboldt, such a beautiful area, kind of on your way to nowhere, but once you get here it is spectacular.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 12:50

I will say the redwoods are a good call out because Humboldt before it was a community that was known for cannabis cultivation, was known for logging and a lot of California and much of the West was built with trees that came down in Northern California. And one of the things that I think would be great to start with is that we want to really platform the story of what the history of cannabis cultivation is in Northern California and, Scott, I'd love for you to give us your perspective as someone that lives in Humble and is deep in the community, kind of starting with the Back to the Land movement. Can you tell us, give us some of the background, the history?

Scott Vasterling: 13:34

Sure, I mean, I was not a part of that history. Family Farms brand a lot of farmers that were a part of the back to the land movement back in the 60s and 70s where, you know, cannabis was just one of the many crops that they grew to support their families and the community over the years and it's, you know it became a cash crop, similar to you know what logging had done back in the day. You know it's interesting, you still, one of the things that I love about coming up to Humboldt and Ferndale and Old Town, eureka is that all the buildings are built with this old growth redwood and it's just really, I mean down to an eighth of an inch even on the way in which the framing is done, an eighth of an inch even on the way in which the framing is done. I mean it's an. It's incredible craft with these craftsmen and Victorian homes here in Humboldt that when you come to visit.

Scott Vasterling: 14:34

But you know, and over the years industry has changed. There was also fishing up here and now the fishing community we've got amazing Dungeness crab up here and a lot of that back to the land movement has transitioned to do more of a craft industry, not just with cannabis, but also with food, uh, and you know cheese and other. You know arts and crafts and all of these things and it's a um. Our farmers markets here, both in southern humboldt and northern humboldt, are a spectacle to see with the amount of energy that goes into one's craft, and cannabis is a good representation of that as well.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 15:12

And so there was the early back to the landers, and then in 1996, there was Prop 215. Prop 215. And that was the medical cannabis ballot initiative that passed in California, the first in the country that was largely driven by AIDS activists and patient activists that gave farmers in Northern California a path to legality for the first time. What did that mean for Northern California when, when Prop 215 opened, opened the doors?

Scott Vasterling: 15:47

Well, I think that that gave uh the opportunity to kind of become, I guess, more legal under the medical structure of Proposition 215. It gave people access to medicine where there was not the threat of enforcement. There was still a lot of enforcement even with 215. I mean it wasn't like a full legal path. However, we were able to cultivate up to a certain number of plants here in Humboldt County. A lot of it was driven on a county to county basis.

Scott Vasterling: 16:16

Not all counties participated in Prop 215, allowing cultivation. Humboldt was one of the ones that did, and so it really kind of started to boost the community. But it was also kind of the start of a little bit of the green rush. Right, like, I mean, this is kind of in the late 90s, early 2000s where all of a sudden the cash crop kind of the green rush started happening where Humboldt and the Emerald triangle at one time was supporting about 70% of the cultivation across the country at that time. It's it's changed dramatically now at you know in today's world, but still you know it was the back then there was. There was the communities that came together and supported things like the volunteer fire departments, the schools and things through.

Scott Vasterling: 17:13

Cannabis was something that was it built an incredible bond in in the communities, and I think that's critically important to what we're dealing with now with regulations is access to medicine and access to the benefits this plant can provide, still have, and it's navigating the path forward to get people the products that they want and that they fell in love with, because a lot of people fell in love with cannabis, with the strains and the products that were created back in those early days. A lot of those strains have blends of CBD a lot of Ringo's strains and things where CBD blends and that provides for really positive experiences, and I think that as the market becomes more mature, they'll start appreciating some of those more classic strains, curated blends, things like that, similar to the wine industry.

Ben Larson: 18:21

Scott, I'm curious. So we understand how the industry has shifted over the years and how it's kind of moved away from, you know, some of the nuances of what Humble has to offer, what Sun Grown has to offer. And I'm curious if you believe that's because of consumer demand or is it more from the construct of Prop 64, 64 that transitioned from Prop 215 to Prop 64? And was there an immediate shift that was caused because of that switchover, or has it been just gradual over time?

Scott Vasterling: 19:02

You know, prop 64 was interesting for our community in many, many ways. I think that sun-grown was normalized and, like I mentioned, it was what people had access to. And I think that with Prop 64, when that came along, what happened was we saw a lot of large farms start cultivating sun-grown, not for the craft, necessarily, but more for the extraction of cannabinoids, for edibles and beverages and vapes, and distillates and oils, and so I think there was a perception in the public that maybe sun-grown was grown at scale specifically for a manufactured product rather than the craft flower that has been around for generations. And I think that now people are starting to realize, you know, that there is a difference with sun grown. You know, and I think that an easy way to describe it in my, in my opinion, is you know, how does one feel when they go out into the sunshine, right, I mean, when the sun on a cold day, and the sun hits you and it warms your soul. It's like the flowers. I mean, these are living plants and they respond the same way, and I think that there's an energy with sun grown that we can get into the. You know, you can talk about the chemical differences and all those, but I feel like the experience, the total cannabinoid profiles of which we don't truly understand yet, but because and everybody has different cannabinoid systems.

Scott Vasterling: 20:38

But I think that what is so exciting to see is positive experiences of consumers that try Sun Grown again, many of these younger consumers for the first time. It doesn't necessarily always have the best bag appeal, but the experience is, I think, what we're going for. I think that that experience is starting to become much more relevant in the market. We're seeing the consumer base start to gravitate towards Sun Grown Craft. There are some amazing brands that are supporting it. We had one brand years ago that at one time was one of the top-selling brands in the state promoting Sun Grown. Unfortunately it wasn't necessarily for the right reasons, but you know, I think that what that did prove is that there is a demand in a market for this Kraft sun grown and I think that's the whole premise of Humboldt Family Farms and many of these other great brands that are doing similar things is providing that product and positive experiences to consumers. But did that answer your question? I kind of go on. I went on a little bit of a tangent, but I.

Ben Larson: 21:53

Yeah, it does and frankly I'm really excited to hear about it because I haven't spent as much time on the mountain as Anna Rae, but I did get to travel up there as a part of the Ganjie program and spoke with a lot of the farmers and they were talking about the challenges of transitioning into the regulated market and how just kind of just the flow of business was making it really hard to just keep their heads above water and it was really sad. It's just like these beautiful farms, just like you know, with plants under the sun and, um, just the feeling you get when you're up there. And it was, it was. It was sad to know that, you know, every year was a questionable whether they were going to be able to keep their doors open. So I am it makes me really happy to hear that you feel that some of this movement is is coming back and that there's some viability there.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 22:54

Yeah, and Ben, I think also, what you're segueing to is another reason why I wanted to have Scott to be a voice for this, because I think what Humboldt Family Farms is doing is unique and we should get into that right now, in that we were just talking about how there is a consumer demand for sun grown, and even just calling it sun grown, I think, is really exciting and cool, because it used to be called outdoor weed and outdoor weed had this like it was.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 23:17

Just it.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 23:18

Just it didn't have the same value.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 23:20

And there was something about the cachet of moving to the language of calling it sun-grown that had to do with elevating it right marketers, distributors, packagers and processors.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 23:31

Um, especially when you're running a uh, a diverse farm that has lots of different things, like to focus on all of the things that regulated cannabis required, I think was very challenging and, um, and and Scott Humboldt family farms in some ways, while you've been in Humboldt a while and I think it would be cool to hear some of that story is late to the game and that you haven't been around as a brand since the beginning of of the regulated market in California and you're doing something a little bit unique. You are not growing all of the product yourself and bringing it to market. You're working with individual farms as as a it to market. You're working with individual farms as a pathway to market. So I'd love to hear about that, like how what you're doing is the solution in many ways to being able to let farmers be farmers and also to bring the idea of sun-grown to consumers in a more scaled kind of fashion, while still maintaining craft.

Scott Vasterling: 24:46

Sure, you know, I moved up to Humboldt in 2002. And I met and married into a second generation cannabis family up here. They weren't from Humboldt but they, you know, are now growing. You know almonds and citrus and things. But at the time, you know, they were all growing cannabis and so that was my real first. I mean, I've been a consumer since high school but so I always knew the benefits and I used very little amounts, and even still today I'm not a really heavy consumer but I realized the, the, the culture of cannabis was like. I didn't move to Humboldt for cannabis. A lot of people moved to Humboldt for either school or for cannabis, you know. And I moved for a different reason and fell in love with the industry up here.

Scott Vasterling: 25:31

You know, I think in marrying into that family we had a cafe. We had two locations. It's called the Beachcomber Cafe. One was up in Trinidad. It's a beautiful little coastal town, a lot of tourists that come through, and we ran that for 20 years, and Humboldt Family Farms was our food farm. So what we did is we, you know, created a food farm to supply the cafe.

Scott Vasterling: 25:51

Always in the back of my mind, you know, we were thinking well, what a great brand name someday, when we have better access and legalization with cannabis, to use that to tell the stories of these farmers. At the time, we're curating, you know, peaches and tomatoes from the farmers to put onto a menu at the cafe, and so that same concept is what we took to Humboldt Family Farms. Now we're curating from different farmers and selecting, like you do at a farmer's market, you know, you walk around you're like, ooh, those peaches look amazing, but the broccoli over at this other farmer, they had a really good season season. So what we're doing is we're curating a menu, similar to what we did at the cafe for the Humboldt family farms menu and, uh, honoring and respecting the farmers that put all of the hard work into it, uh, behind the scenes, for an entire season. So we tell you know the authentic story of the farmers and the people that are helping us through the supply chain, and I think that that's something that for me has been a real pleasure to hear all the stories of the different farmers and to help create this platform to have their voices heard through the supply chain to the end consumer and help manage the business side of. Like this is how you make an invoice or this is what you know.

Scott Vasterling: 27:08

These are the types of strains that are selling best at retail. Let's scale those particular strains, let's scale back on some of the experimental strains, maybe that you know, sometimes they hit, sometimes they don't. But don't go all in on a greenhouse of something you've never grown before. So, and giving the farmers the freedom to have the choice, because I again going back to the energy of the plant, I truly believe that when the farmers are passionate about what it is that they're cultivating, that comes through in the end product. And that's true with fruits and vegetables, and that's also true with with cannabis, and it's true with even manufactured products. Some of the manufacturer, that quality, its passion, I think, is shared across the supply chain.

Scott Vasterling: 27:54

It's taken a while.

Scott Vasterling: 27:55

We kissed a lot of frogs along the way, have figured out the rhythm with our supply chain, with our distribution, with our retail partners.

Scott Vasterling: 28:10

That it's an absolute honor to be in the position we are scaling the way that we are, as quickly as we are, to support the retailers and the consumers with these craft products directly from the farms in very short. You know manufacturing timelines, you know from the farm we process one week, test it, package it the next week. It's at distro by the end of that week, so it's very short timelines to provide, you know, the best experience as possible, and even down to our packaging. You know our packaging partners. We love to use the Grove bags, the Turplock system, because that maintains the quality of the flour, I believe, as do many others, so that you're providing the end consumer with that same high-end quality, the way it came off of the farm, right, because they're much more expensive. But I think it's a part of providing that positive experience all around, and so that's kind of been our commitment and, like I mentioned, it's been a pleasure to support these amazing farmers through supply chain.

Ben Larson: 29:11

Can we dive a little bit in just to the tactical side of how you're creating that linkage for the consumer to the product? Because one of the things I do remember the Prop 215 days was being able to go into a dispensary and the deli-style service of flour where you could really experience it before you buy it. And now we're in this world where the visualness of the indoor cannabis and the way it's packaged behind plastic, that's about as far as the best that we have right, there's.

Ben Larson: 29:46

I mean, I I'm sure someone's tried scratch and sniff and whatnot, but it's just like you. You miss that, that, that one opportunity where it's like you really get that that unique. You know aroma of the plant and you're now forced to go purely off visuals and descriptions and so, like, how are you conquering that and and really selling you know the, this opportunity?

Scott Vasterling: 30:10

You know there's there's a couple of different ways and I think, uh, I mean deli style was awesome, right, you could go in and you could be like I want that bud and that bud. You could put your nose in the big gallon jar and and smell it. I mean, it was, it was fantastic. And there's some technology that you know, the little like push the back of the end and you can smell it. But unfortunately, you know, it's just like usually it's one small nug and it's underneath the fluorescent light so it turns. You got to replace those things like every couple of days and it's just not a, I think, necessarily a functioning system. But I think that events have been fantastic. For us that's been a great solution.

Scott Vasterling: 30:48

State Fair was phenomenal to have these onsite sales and consumption where you can tell people about the products. The other thing is we 100% stand behind our products. That's a commitment that we have to the consumers. We use and consume all of our products, you know. So we create and put products on the market that we love and and some people like the fruit, some people like the gas, so not everyone's going to be having an affinity to every product, but I think that you know, sharing the stories of the farmers using that high end quality and then getting out and having people experience it through in services, whether that's PADs at the individual stores or going to these events like State Fair, outside Lands, cali Roots anywhere we can get in front of the end user and the consumers to share our story.

Scott Vasterling: 31:35

And also working with retailers. We have some amazing retail partners, like Embark, that also believe in what we're doing with the brand and with the craft style to help us scale into all of their stores and so getting opportunities to go in and educate the bud tenders because ultimately, the bud tenders are the ones that have a lot of attention on bud tender education about the quality of the plants and then getting product into their hands to smell and to try at these different events has been something that has worked really well for us. It's literally one customer at a time, though I mean some days I'm like just one, let me just get one customer to come back and give us but the feedback consistently has been incredibly positive and and so it gives me the motivation to keep, keep moving forward because you know, we're definitely gaining, gaining more and more customers every day and I I'm so thankful for that.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:40

That's such a good reminder just to center on the customer in that way.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:44

I love it.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 32:46

So I'm kind of a supply chain wonk and I think that the way that things move around and the relationships between suppliers and processors and ultimately all the way through the distribution network is really kind of some of the core functions that create long-term success for companies.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 33:05

And while I hear so much purpose and mission embedded in the way that you've created this supply chain concept of sourcing from farms and aggregating them into the brand, I also see that it is very reminiscent of much more large-scale traditional agricultural supply chain that we that we see, especially like in California, where there's a lot of large scale agriculture and things like like nuts or raisins, where there's lots of independent farms, and then there is a brand like diamond that that brings lots of nuts to market or or California raisins that buy lots of raisins from aggregated small farms and then put them into their distribution network when they meet certain different types of quality standards.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 33:58

And to me that looks like cannabis growing up in some ways of realizing that there is a way for small farms to exist. But we have to see it as part of a larger supply chain kind of machine and relationship of different people having different parts and different expertise. I wonder if that's how you see it and if you've been looking at those types of supply chains as as as groups that you want to like reference and or or just are you creating it from scratch? And it just happens to be that I'm drawing this conclusion Like well, how do you see that?

Scott Vasterling: 34:38

No, I think you're absolutely right and I'm learning along the way also. You know, and I think that the vision was always to kind of the, the, the history and the culture and the stories that are told through generations of this cannabis cultivation over the years is something that I wanted to make sure that there was a platform that could tell these stories from these families that grew up and were a part of this revolution and this magical plant. You know, from back in the, you know 60s, 70s and things like that. You know that was originally just the original intent of the brand and now there are a lot of similarities in what we're doing. It's very much it's a collaborative effort, it's much like a co op.

Scott Vasterling: 35:19

There are some restrictions with cannabis and co-ops because of the size that I think it's still four acres of, of, as how large a official co-op can be, and that didn't make sense to me because of the scalability, right. I mean, we, uh, we have the ability to scale through bringing on more farms, uh, and the nice thing is, you know, when things happen like the pesticide issue, right, like you know, that's not an issue for us because these are small family farms that have been growing for friends and family for a long time. They're not spraying crazy pesticides on things proactively. Because their farm is so large they can't set eyes on the plants on a daily basis. And I'm not calling out anyone, I'm just saying it's a different style of agriculture and so I think that the way in which we've kind of fallen into this model and the way that we've now been able to scale it with the partners that we've been able to scale it with has, like I said, I'm learning every day and we're continuing to learn. We still clearly make mistakes every day, but we learn from those mistakes and we create solutions.

Scott Vasterling: 36:30

I think that that's really what's critically important as we move this industry forward is continuing to look at solution-based options and solution-based methods to keep the industry and innovation moving forward, because I can stand up here, pound my fist and tell you all day long about what's wrong with it, but unless I'm creating solutions for the problems, nothing's going to change and everyone's still going to be digging the hole and it's like we've got to get out of the hole someday. And I'm not saying that this is a solution that's going to happen tomorrow, but you know, we, the cannabis cultivation and these farmers, have been around for a really long time and we're not going anywhere. Some people follow their land for a year or two where they need to navigate things. You know I, you know people need to do what they need to do to support their family and their community, and there have been some struggles and there are some struggles, and so you know part of my, my role within the cannabis advisory committee at the DCC was to have a voice.

Scott Vasterling: 37:29

That's why I got involved. It's like there needs to be voice at all levels that are trying to figure out solutions. I don't have all the solutions, but I'll put my head down all day long to try to help figure out how we can make this industry better, more accessible, to have more people participate in order to make the business successful in the long run, not just for Humboldt Family Farms and our communities, but also on the state level and everyone that's playing the game.

Ben Larson: 37:56

As an entrepreneur, I always love to drop into the problem solution framework, and one of the problems that you actually mentioned was was pesticides. Like we've all seen the headlines coming out of, out of california in particular. Have, uh, have these events drawn more attention to? You know high quality, you know conscious growing, you know not only from a pesticide perspective, boss, but also you know sustainability and and all the, the, the, the features that you know, the, the, the sun-grown movement provides like. Are our consumers getting more sophisticated or going back to being sophisticated and starting to ask for for these qualities in a product?

Scott Vasterling: 38:45

I think consumers are becoming more and more educated every day as the industry becomes more normalized, right, and I think that, um, we are seeing more brand loyalty to some of these craft brands, which is really exciting because of the issues like the pesticides and things like and a variety of other things. But I think I think it's important for people to take responsibility for the things that they consume and you know, I was laughing earlier because we were talking about well, if I eat McDonald's every single day, why would I be surprised that I get diabetes? Right, like, I mean that and I think that, like taking responsibility for supporting the brands that you want to support, that are doing right by their community, by their cultivation techniques and the people that they work with. I think that's becoming more apparent in the supply chain. I think that having the ability to support some of these larger retailers with the things that they need takes a collaboration of people.

Scott Vasterling: 39:49

It's hard for a small craft farm at 10,000 square feet to be able to supply a fleet of 20 stores with consistent quality, where there's not gaps in the menu or there's gaps on the shelf when things run out, and so that's been something that has probably been one of our bigger challenges, because we are working with small farms that I don't have a specific strain that can get us through 12 months. But instead of having, you know, like the grape delicious for 12 months, but I have grape delicious and then I have delicata grapes and then I have modified grapes Right, so we've got a theme Right, and then and then that the retailers are like OK, I get it, I got it and we can pull from the farmers in these kind of classes and that's able to support it throughout the entire 12 months. And now that we've kind of been able to prove that to these retailers is where we're getting scale.

Ben Larson: 40:43

I got to get my hands on some of these Delicata grapes. I just love the way that sounds yeah.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 40:50

It doesn't sound like cannabis, it sounds like something else.

Scott Vasterling: 40:54

You know, sometimes you know, like I smell some of these like the grape delicious is like that, that grape soda, and I'm like you know, I'm still amazed how some of these strains smell the way they do. It doesn't, yeah, it's, it's really, it's really incredible, but that those, those are. Those are a couple of my favorites.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 41:12

Yeah, shout out to all the aroma profiles that this plant has has brought to us Right. So unfortunately, we don't have interstate commerce, so the work that you're doing is currently is only available right now in now in the regulated California market. I'm wondering what the lessons are that people in other markets who are listening to this should be taking. In terms of other states, maybe they can't buy Humboldt Family Farms product today, but if you're cultivating or if you're a retailer in another market, what are some lessons that you can share that you've learned, scott?

Scott Vasterling: 41:59

Collaboration. I think what we're seeing now in the state of California is we're seeing the cream start to rise to the top and the good operators are making it and the hustlers aren't. And I think having a good business acumen and going into collaborations, you know, openly and also creatively, I think, has been something that has been a real eye-opener for me, and I think that some of the collaborations that we have coming down the line this year I'm super excited about. We're doing some work with the Nogier program. It's an amazing group in Southern Humboldt. There's some other farms and brands that we're also working on. You know, sharing SOPs, like let's make everybody's life easier so we can make a functioning system right. I mean, this is a our industry.

Scott Vasterling: 42:45

Cannabis is still very, very young, and not just in California but really in the country, and I think that what we've seen in what we're doing with Humboldt Family Farms could be replicated in other states where you've got small operators that are collaborating.

Scott Vasterling: 43:03

There is always risk with having too many voices in the room, but I think that listening to those voices that's what opens up opportunities, challenges and things, and so I think that, uh, I think that that's really where we're going to start seeing some of the smaller operators, like in other industries, like other traditional farming industries, like you know, the, the dairies, like you mentioned earlier, um, the raisins I think that we'll start seeing.

Scott Vasterling: 43:28

You know and California is an ag state, right, I mean we are known for agriculture I mean supply most of it across the entire country. So I see that as lines open up that we will still probably supply the majority of the cannabis across the United States, but I think that that's going to be important for people to have local representation and if you're voting with your dollar which I always advise support the companies and the people that you enjoy spending time with and that you believe in. That's probably the single most beneficial thing that you can do is by voting with your dollar and supporting those companies. So if there are small farmers and craft farmers or craft producers in your area that you like and want to see succeed, we need to be supporting them.

Ben Larson: 44:17

Amen, yeah, and Scott, I just want to bring it back to the sustainability aspect really quick, just because I feel like we've kind of lost that narrative a little bit, that narrative a little bit, and can you just elucidate a little bit about the difference between indoor and sun grown when it comes to consumption of whether it's energy or you know some of these other just talking points when it comes to the sustainability of growing?

Scott Vasterling: 44:44

No, I'm not as familiar with indoor cultivation. I mean I, I to have specifics on the energy consumption. I mean we all know that there's a much larger intensity of energy consumption. You know the sun I, I, sun grown and the people that we're supporting, the OCal, certified sun or certified folks. You know we're capturing our water from the roofs of our, you know of our barns and using solar power and things like that. So how it compares, you know clearly there's a difference.

Scott Vasterling: 45:21

I prefer sun grown. I feel better when I'm in the sun versus when I'm in a cubicle inside, like I just kind of I like translate that. And there's also the craft part, and I'm not saying that indoor doesn't have a craft, but you're. But indoor does manipulate growing cycles and conditions and everything to to what would be considered by some and an ideal environment. What I love about the craft of Sunground is that every single year mother nature provides different inputs that you have to deal with and manage and it's the the, the skill of the farmer that has to navigate those to get that end product. And so I feel like the flower at the end of the season tells a story of the season, of all that they had to navigate in order to get this flower that to to the consumers. I mean, I'm a believer, clearly. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.

Scott Vasterling: 46:23

I, I, there, there is a place for indoor. I'm not saying there isn't, but you know you could set up an indoor facility anywhere in the world, but there's only certain areas that you can have sun-grown cannabis at the qualities that we're producing out of the Emerald Triangle and Humboldt, and I think that that will be recognized. I mean, that's why Humboldt has the brand recognition that it does. I mean, I've been fortunate enough to travel to different places around the world and when people ask where I'm from and I say humble, I go you're like, that's the brand, like now, how do I, how can I, how, and, and the community people around me hold that reputation like, how can I, like it's? I need to be able to stand up to that reputation and so that's what motivates me to do the best I can every day. You know, and and and and that's what I can commit to the brand and also our consumers is that our farmers and we're doing the best we can every day.

Scott Vasterling: 47:19

I don't like to talk negatively on any part of the industry because, to be honest, there is a place for it. There are medical patients that require certain inputs and certain, you know, growing conditions because of a medical condition, and there's absolutely a need for that, and I think, um, but personally I I prefer sun grown. I like being outside. I'm a through hiker Pacific Crest trail, appalachian trail Like I love being outside, and so I don't. My my family situation and things are such that I can't go on these long months you know multi-month hikes anymore but I can spend the entire season on the farm and it feeds me and the experiences that we're providing through these products is being appreciated, and so that keeps me moving forward.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 48:04

I know that you have been really clear about the positive energy that you want to bring to the future and to the whole industry and I appreciate that you're not throwing shade on indoor while still being a strong advocate for Sunground. You mentioned this concept of Humboldt going out to the world and what that would mean is a massive policy door opening that would allow for interstate commerce in some ways and I go back and forth in my mind about being able to predict would really be able to largely commoditize cannabis throughout the country and do you see a world where both exist, that interstate commerce happens and that that's positive for small farmers, while also opening the door to more traditional, large-scale agriculture?

Scott Vasterling: 49:15

I do. I mean I think that there is a way. I mean, look at Blue Diamond, what they've done with almonds, right, I mean, those are a lot of small almond farmers around the state of California that all go into a collaborative brand that is known around the world for the quality of their almonds. So I think that there's that, and then there's also there's there's going to be on the flip side you're going to have, you know, there's large almond producers that are vertically integrated and they grow all their own almonds.

Scott Vasterling: 49:37

So I think that I think that people like stories, right, the storytelling aspect of of what we and the culture, of what Humboldt is and the Emerald Triangle is and many other places around the state and Oregon and things too. I'm just more central, I mean, I'm just more familiar with what we're dealing with here in Humboldt in particular. But I think that people like to hear those stories and I think that that matters. When you're telling the story of a brand, I think authenticity is critically important. I think that there's been a lot of marketing companies that have built a brand and, um, you know, there's a lack of authenticity. So I think that's what we're trying to bring to it. I think that people will appreciate it through the supply chain and ray I was.

Ben Larson: 50:24

I was saying, uh, when we're in canadaticon and it's like this isn't legal, like what we're like, it doesn't feel like we're legal yet. And when we do eventually achieve true legality and true access, that humble will be just as storied as as napa right, and you'll be able to get to go visit the farms and truly understand what it is to do regenerative farming and how that results in an end product, and I just can't wait for that. I know some of my favorite wineries in Sonoma Napa are the biodynamic farms, where they do show you how they create the insectaries and they capture all the waters and keep everything on site. And there's going to be opportunity for that and really for the interstate commerce. Futures is where Humboldt's really going to shine. So we need to get there, we need to legalize Patience.

Scott Vasterling: 51:22

Lots of patience.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 51:24

Yeah. So, scott, we're getting close to the end of the hour and I wanted to give you the opportunity to make a last call for our listeners advice, call to action, closing thought. Um, all you, the mic is yours. Well, thank you.

Scott Vasterling: 51:40

It's been. It's been a pleasure to chat with you all today and I thank you again for having me on. You know, feel free to go to check us out on our website, humboldt family farmscom. Um, you free to go to check us out on our website, humboldtfamilyfarmscom. You know. And I guess the last piece of advice I'd just like to mention is never quit on a rainy day. It's easy to quit on a rainy day and you want to stop hiking when you're wet and cold and tired, but that's not the time to throw in the towel, like, if you know, if it's sunny and you're happy and it's still time to make a change. That's a positive change, and so I hope that you know we can see as many of our family farmers across the nation make it through federal legalization, because I think there's no doubt the market for it and I'm proud to be a part of it. So thank you for letting me tell my story.

Ben Larson: 52:21

I love that.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 52:22

I just got chills.

Ben Larson: 52:23

Amazing.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 52:25

Thank you so much, Scott.

Ben Larson: 52:27

All right, Scott, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Scott. All right, Scott, we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much. Thank you, All right. Everyone Taking it back to the roots Anna Rae, thank you so much for queuing this one up. It really is important that we remember where this all came from and hopefully we can uncover these opportunities as we progress in this crazy world of cannabis that we're all in. Yeah, All right, folks. As we wrap up, remember that the dialogue doesn't have to end here and we'd love to hear your thoughts. What topics should we cover? Who should we have on? Huge thank you to our guest, Scott Vasterling, for sharing the time and insights, the stories of Humboldt Family Farms. Of course, thank you to our producer, Eric Rossetti, our teams at Virtosa and Wolfmeyer. Thank you for tuning into High Spirits, for liking, subscribing, doing all the things. Share it with your family, your friends. We're glad to be back. We got a bunch of new episodes coming up, so thank you for tuning in, sticking with us every week.

AnnaRae Grabstein: 53:30

Take us out NRA and, as always, folks stay curious, stay informed and keep your spirits high. That's a wrap.

Ben Larson: 53:46

Sorry about that. My brain started thinking about like how do I get out of this? And like thinking about pressing the button the button in the outro. I'm like, oh, that was. Uh, my adhd really kicked in right there.